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Post by JChance on Apr 23, 2007 7:21:32 GMT -7
I absolutely love the new MAZ38NR I got a month or so ago. It's very thick, and just the right type of dark. However, I'm struggling a bit to get any type of useable clean tone.
I've played through NR amps before, and knew that it would be a bit gainer than the 'verb model I had before.. But my problem is that this one is DRASTICALLY different. By the time I get the volume on about 9:00, it's already starting to be quite broken.
So, is this normal? Or is this just possibly a tube issue that can be tweaked?
I don't think it's got anything worng with it... It doesn't sound like a square-wave like from a burnt screen or anything...
It's just that after about 11:00 on the volume dial, it turns into a total gain factory. Sort of similar to a cranked RXES with the "overdose" toggle engaged...
With the reverb model I had, I could get the most gorgeous cleans until about 1:00 or so on the vol.
Anyone have any ideas? I really have gotten away from tube swapping/experimenting... But I might have to with this one-
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Post by kruzty on Apr 23, 2007 8:17:58 GMT -7
My NR Jr. is the same way, but I like it like that. Have you tried the low input? That should help. You could also try backing all the tone controls off.
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Post by hdahs143 on Apr 23, 2007 9:22:29 GMT -7
5751's in V1 and/or the PI position will work wonders.
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Post by jwr on Apr 23, 2007 10:39:01 GMT -7
1:00 on my Sr. will get a little gainy. That does sound like a drastic difference. Try hdahs idea, it will help a lot. You could even try a 12AU7 or 12AY7 in V1 with the LOW input and see where that get's ya. Maybe a quick e-mail to Myles would help. I feel silly asking you this of all people on this board, but are you diming the master and using the vol/gain knob to adjust the overall volume? My Sr. is WAY loud and clean that way, but it's a verb model.
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Post by JChance on Apr 23, 2007 10:41:18 GMT -7
Yep, always dime the master. I've always used my MAZ amps for maz headroom. But with the master dimed, it starts breaking up at 9:00, then a little more at 10:00, quite a bit (but sounds great even for broken cleans) at 11:00.. Then after that it's like Angus Young.
Maybe some tube swaps would tame it down a bit. I don't mind the dirt live so much, but if I'm trying to record a nice chimey, AC30-esque clean part, that's when it becomes an issue.
Or if I'm playing a bigger stage with a loud band....
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Post by guitarboy02451 on Apr 23, 2007 11:49:46 GMT -7
5751's in V1 and/or the PI position will work wonders. Ditto's to what Harold said. The JJ's + the LPS gets hot quickly. I know you mentioned Volume, but where is your master set? The Volume is supposed to act as a gain stage. What happens if you turn your master to about 10 - 11 am, but keep the Volume at around 9am? That should be plenty clean loud... I would think... It is on mine at least. pg
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Post by kledbet on Apr 23, 2007 12:23:31 GMT -7
Did you get this used? Sounds like maybe the power tubes are a low rating. Try some #6 GT tubes in there. You should not be getting much overdrive with the settings you described. 5751 in V1 does help, as does the low input, but something else is not quite right.... try new power tubes at the #6 rating.
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Post by JChance on Apr 23, 2007 13:02:02 GMT -7
Did you get this used? Sounds like maybe the power tubes are a low rating. Try some #6 GT tubes in there. You should not be getting much overdrive with the settings you described. 5751 in V1 does help, as does the low input, but something else is not quite right.... try new power tubes at the #6 rating. Nope, brand new. #6 power in there already. I'm thinking pre-amp tubes might be the ticket...
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Post by Lefty on Apr 23, 2007 13:17:41 GMT -7
Didja try a different set of JJ's #6? Speakers? Try the Tung Sol RI 12AX7's...I like 'em.
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Apr 23, 2007 16:09:49 GMT -7
I don't think you're gonna be able to do what your wanting to do with THAT amp... I'll take it off your hands when your ready.... seriously, a NOS Rectifier and maybe a 5751 in the V1 slot OUGHT to make a big difference... To me the NOS rectifier's smooth it out and gives it more headroom and are perfect for the MAZ SR and JR. JMHO...
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Post by JChance on Apr 23, 2007 17:31:16 GMT -7
Funny thing... I'm finding the MAZ38NR to be a little too dirty, but the new Ghia head to not quite be dirty enough. Maybe I try taking the 5751 out of the Ghia and swapping it with a 12AX7 from the MAZ 38, and vice-versa. The Ghia is cool so far, but might be a little too "pristine" for my tastes..
The MAZ 38 is running through a variety of cabinets.. Alnico and ceramic Blues, Silvers, 1225's, etc. Pretty dirty regardless of speaker choice...
J
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Post by jwr on Apr 23, 2007 20:09:53 GMT -7
The Ghia sounds great with a 12AX7 in V1 and PI. Sounds like your on the right track with both amps tube wise.
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buster
Junior Member
Posts: 73
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Post by buster on Apr 24, 2007 13:33:39 GMT -7
Hi Jayson, I had some problems with headroom in my 38/verb and did tons of tube swapping and some speaker swapping too. I don't know what type of tubes are in your 38 but I bought all new JJ's pre and power tubes and that's when I started having problems. I found that the JJ 12at7's broke up more then say electro-harmonix or philips 12at7's which made quite a difference. I think in general JJ's in my experience break up faster and are not as loud as some other tubes and they sound more compressed to me also. Each to their own though. I know some folks say that reverb drivers and recovery tubes don't make mcuh difference but they in fact can make a huge difference from my experience. I have a V30 and a g12h, 8ohms each and run the amp at 4ohms, that seems to give me a slight bit more headroom also. By the way my master is between 3oclock and full out and my preamp volume is set to around 1or 2 oclock. With the JJ 12at7's I had to run my pre volume at around 11 oclock and it didn't sound as big. That's with a strat or tele. One last thing which is probably obvious, being that it's new maybe there is a 12ax7 in the PI socket. A 12aT7 would help somewhat. ** damn** this is the second time I have had to mod this post but I forgot to mention something else. A huge help also was changing my rectifier tube. I had a GE one in there that came with the amp and I put a Sovtek one in it and all of a sudden the amp became louder and bigger sounding. Surprising as I thought the GE rec would be far superior. That gave headroom too. Good luck. Buster
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Post by tonepolice on Apr 24, 2007 21:50:37 GMT -7
I also had the same problem with my Maz38NR.I put 5751's in V1 and the PI slots.This cleaned the amp up quite a bit.I also found that I run the mids lower on the NR than on my friend reverb model.I also prefer the low gain input on the NR while I like the high gain on my buddy's reverb model.
Good Luck, Billy
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Post by drew on Apr 25, 2007 7:54:05 GMT -7
Mine had 5751s in V1 and V2, it was very clean. I tried two 12ax7ms (V1 & V1) and wow the amp was a gain monster (at least for me). I finally settled on a ecc83 V1 and 5751 in V2.
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Post by JChance on Apr 25, 2007 8:25:38 GMT -7
Well, here's an update.. I think I might be a total RE-TARD... I used it for a rehearsal last night and it absolutely sounded like a$$. Like no note definition at all. Un-focused, etc. I had *assumed* that since it was new that the chances of tube failure weren't likely. I've gotten away from my "tweaking" phase with tubes, and just figured, "hell, it's new, it can't be the tubes..." However, in the middle of rehearsal, while struggling a bit with the tone, I decided to peek in the back... One of the EL84's was glowing noticeably brighter than the others.. Not red, but definitely a brighter orange color that was different than the others. I also noticed that while the other three tubes had a healthy amount of gray material in the top of the tube (whatever that stuff is), the one in question was glowing all the way at the top, showing none of the grayish-black stuff. Now, I know these aren't very technical terms...LOL But I hope it makes sense... So I'm going to drop in a different set of power tubes today and see what happens. I just figured that the amp was a gain monster until I noticed that it just sounded "sick" when playing with a band. QUESTION: Would it be safe to assume that, if only one of the EL84 tubes is bad, can I simply replace it with another of the same brand/rating? Or would it be best to just replace the set to be safe? I ask, because I have some spares... But not sure if I have a complete quad of new, fresh GT's. J
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Post by Curt on Apr 25, 2007 10:14:38 GMT -7
pairs should be fine Jayson..And remeber that you get a 90 warranty on those tubes, give Myles a ping on this, GT should replace 'em.
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Post by kledbet on Apr 25, 2007 11:02:17 GMT -7
Have GT replace the pair. Just put in a fresh pair for now to be safe. Your tube might have gotten a little damaged in shipping. Let us know how the Maz sounds with new output tubes. Without all that cross talk distortion from the tube issues my guess is it won't sound like the same amp. I had a Deluxe Reverb do this once, and the problem was in a grid resistor.... the amp had an overdrive sound no matter where I put the volume.
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Post by JChance on Apr 25, 2007 11:05:59 GMT -7
Have GT replace the pair. Just put in a fresh pair for now to be safe. Your tube might have gotten a little damaged in shipping. Let us know how the Maz sounds with new output tubes. Without all that cross talk distortion from the tube issues my guess is it won't sound like the same amp. I had a Deluxe Reverb do this once, and the problem was in a grid resistor.... the amp had an overdrive sound no matter where I put the volume. I bet is was a reissue, wasn't it.... They are famous for that. I had one, and it did about three times in 6 months. Burnt screen... I have a buddy with one right now that's not working, and it's the same problem.. Yeah, I'll try the tubes today and let ya'll know what's up... J
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Post by aj1169 on Apr 25, 2007 11:18:46 GMT -7
Hey Jayson, you may want to double check before you pop in just a pair of the tubes. I know some of Z's EL84 amps are split load biased, which means you can run 2 matched pairs just fine rather than a fully matched quad. I'm not sure if the MAZ SR is set up this way however. If the tubes are under warranty, you may be better off going with the quad. Just a heads up.
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Post by kledbet on Apr 25, 2007 11:24:30 GMT -7
Jayson I wish I could say it was a reissued Deluxe but it was my 66. It took out my new pair of Visseaux 6v6 tubes that I paid $75 for. I still have the amp and its working fine... I have heard horror stories about the new ones especially if you are working them hard.
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gimik
Junior Member
Peace, Love & Music
Posts: 58
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Post by gimik on May 6, 2007 1:53:56 GMT -7
Mine had 5751s in V1 and V2, it was very clean. I tried two 12ax7ms (V1 & V1) and wow the amp was a gain monster (at least for me). I finally settled on a ecc83 V1 and 5751 in V2. Yes, Drew, yours (which is mine now ;D) is VERY clean. It doesn't break up at all - even fully crancked. It produces a very rich, complex and warm clean sound. With my Strat and my 2x12" cab, I could obtain something very close to the "Wind cries Mary" with the volume at 3 o'clock. Very sweet sounding amp. I tried my NOS Siemens ECC83 in V1 and V2. No real change. With the current tubes configuration, it's a very good base for my pedalboard: Fulltone Clyde Wah -> Diamond comp -> Xotic RC Booster -> Fulltone OCD -> [fx loop: VoodoLab Tremolo -> SweetSound Mofaux Vibe -> Boss DD3].
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Post by prsnstrat on Jun 20, 2007 14:15:52 GMT -7
Should be just fine, Jayson's a standup dude. Let us know zandiego, if it doesn't work out for ya, i'll take it off your hands. Just trying to help a brutha out.
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Post by (8^D) on Jun 21, 2007 6:47:20 GMT -7
I just registered here today as I am awaiting the delivery of my first Z amp (Maz38) and it appears the amp I bought was Jayson's amp(ebay) with the tone / tube issues. I'd like to know if the original tubes are what's coming in it when I get it this week since you experimented with some tube swapping? Also, did you ever get favorable results, and with what tube combo? I'm sure it can be resolved - at least I hope so. I'll know more once I receive it and see if I experience the same tones you did with my settings, amps, effects, etc. I appreciate all the advice given on here when Jayson had it. I may be the one now to put it to use! Congrats on the new Z and welcome to the forum. Lots of fine and knowledgable folks floating around the board. If it was Jayson's amp, it's been tweaked and is a screamer. Was nothing more than a bad tube. Am sure it will ship in post-tweak condition. It sounds killer - heard it a few weeks back. DW
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Jun 21, 2007 7:26:13 GMT -7
I just registered here today as I am awaiting the delivery of my first Z amp (Maz38) and it appears the amp I bought was Jayson's amp(ebay) with the tone / tube issues. I'd like to know if the original tubes are what's coming in it when I get it this week since you experimented with some tube swapping? Also, did you ever get favorable results, and with what tube combo? I'm sure it can be resolved - at least I hope so. I'll know more once I receive it and see if I experience the same tones you did with my settings, amps, effects, etc. I appreciate all the advice given on here when Jayson had it. I may be the one now to put it to use! First... Welcome to the forum zandiego, That should be a great amp, Jayson had it going before he sold it... and you beat me to it, cause I was gonna buy it! It should be a Good un... I am currently debating getting a Maz JR NR but I'd take that SR NR of his in a heartbeat. So if for ANY reason you decide it's not for you, please let me know because if I haven't already gotten a JR, I will buy it for what you paid! Jason
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Post by guitarboy02451 on Jun 22, 2007 5:52:01 GMT -7
Jayson, that was my next suggestion. Go with a 5751 in the Phase Inv and P1. Try that out. Also, what guitar are you using? Your may have hot pups.
I know when I dusted off my Les Paul Custom the other day, I can run the amp with no pedals and easily get that Jimmy Page tone. But my LP is really warm, dark and hot. Treble has to go to 2pm, cut has to go to noon and little headroom to spare.
I switched to the low input and this helps for the head room...
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Post by Bill on Jun 22, 2007 9:24:10 GMT -7
I saw Jayson's posting of the Maz Sr NR minutes after it hit TGP emporium, great selling price, and would have bought it had I not just pulled the trigger on a Jr NR one day before. The fact that the NR's break up quicker is what I like about them...my current one has very little in common with my old 2x10 reverb model. Like everyone else, if you decide to sell I may get in line...
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Post by prsnstrat on Jun 25, 2007 9:09:00 GMT -7
Hey Madison...I'm a former Va resident myself, lived in Lynchburg 22 years before moving to Cal. I saw Jayson's amp on ebay right after he put it up so I hit "buy it now" before it got away. So even if it needs a new set of tubes I still did OK I think. Right now I'm waiting on the doorbell to be rung by a person holding my amp! Tone report zandiego??
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Post by dgabbear on Jun 25, 2007 16:16:55 GMT -7
I was under the impression that the MAZ Sr. had lots of headroom and was cleaner than the MAZ Jr?
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Post by fishman on Jun 25, 2007 19:54:20 GMT -7
I have a 38 with a Tonker installed, as I am not a died in the wool celestion fan anyway. I have clean headroom for days....all I could want. As a many year old fender player I know clean and this is clean. And at least in this application the Tonker is a very loud clean sounding speaker... I have always liked Eminece speakers and this one is no exception...I listend to BW;s clips and decied real fast./..I like that and this is what he is using, I will have the same....the extra bonus was the cleans...this amp can jangle like a AC30, clean like a Fender and a whole lot more....I do have a NOS Mullard/Phillips rectifier that I got from Nitehawk here on the forum..I also have one in my Z28 as well....best single purchase in relation to results that I have ever had in tube replacement.... Any how, all I can say is the cleans are in mine, they should be in yours as well...and remember, and I still have a hard time with this, the controls on the MAZ and most other Z's I have played do not adhear to common themes...I sometimes end up with the EQ on the MAZ in a configuration that you would think just can;t work at all...and POW....there it is, great sound, its a weird thing ..... I must admit I like my Z;s.....and at a gig this last weekend where I used a :"different{ amp, they all said it sounded fine but they like the Z's better...has been that way since day one and i have lots of good amps.... enjoy the 38... btw...heavy sidebar...just hooked up tickets to Willie Nelson, Merle Haggard and Ray Price ....apparently they are all on tour together....hmmmm I wonder if there will be any #1 Hits from these guys...HA...I think they could play for 3 hours and play nothing but #1 hits...looking forward to that....funny, its in Vermont and the night before the show is...Joan Jett, Foghat and Blue Oyster Cult.....got tickets to that too.....sorta one extreme to the other....
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