wilzgt
Full Member
I plumb for Z-Tone !
Posts: 151
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Post by wilzgt on Dec 5, 2006 10:29:46 GMT -7
I was wondering why the Dr. doesn't use pine cabinets? I was wondering what they would sound like?
Any ideas?
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Post by BW on Dec 5, 2006 15:40:18 GMT -7
Maybe Gerald Weber has all the pine over 80 years old that's left ;^)
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Post by rhythmeister on Dec 5, 2006 20:50:18 GMT -7
I have a couple ideas. First, pine is relatively soft compared to birch...dents easily and is not known as a particularly sturdy wood. Cabs tend to take a lot of abuse over the long haul, so birch seems like a better bet.
Second, I have read that many people feel a "hard" wood like birch, oak etc. yields better sound/acoustics in a speaker cab than a softer wood.
Cheers, Blair
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Post by Don on Dec 5, 2006 21:14:24 GMT -7
Baltic Birch is definitely a better tone wood than pine, especially for the baffle board where the speaker is mounted. Most of the higher end speaker cabs use baltic birch for the soundboard, if not the entire cab. Think of it this way. A birch baffle is like a fine spruce top on an acoustic guitar. So much of the tone of the instrument ( be it a speaker cab or guitar) is in direct relationship to the soundboard being used. It wasn't a mistake that Doc uses Baltic Birch.
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Post by ruger9 on Dec 6, 2006 4:28:55 GMT -7
If I'm not mistaken, doesn't the Doc use birch PLY for his cabs, not solid birch?
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Post by mward on Dec 6, 2006 7:18:03 GMT -7
All those great vintage fender super reverbs had pine cabinets and held up fine over the years, I don't think the durability of the wood is an issue. Costmetic durability isn't really an issue either because they're all covered in tolex. I built a 212 cab out of pine and loaded it with a g12h30 and a vintage 30. No tolex, just 6 coats of rub-in polyurethane. It sounds, in a word, brilliant. The tone is very warm compared to a plywood cabinet and has great resonance. My next tests are going to be oak and walnut. I buy lumber from the amish pretty cheap so experiments like this are easy and having a full woodshop helps too. My baffle is birch ply. As for the comparison between acoustic guitars and cabinets - you'll note that nice acoustic guitars are not made from plywood. Maybe a baffle out of pine is in order for my cabinet to see if it changes the tone. I do know I'm sold on solid wood cabinets and likely would never build one out of plywood ever again.
edit - I just realized you can see the cab I'm talking about in my avatar.
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 6, 2006 8:49:19 GMT -7
Gerald Weber did a lot of testing of woods for cabinets. There's probably some info on his Kendrick website, I know there is in one of his books. There are different kinds of pine. I don't know which Leo Fender used for his early guitars and all of his classic amps. Before he got a finger jointing machine Leo used other woods like Walnut also but that was probably more for cosmetic reasons since he hadn't started using cloth coverings yet.
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wilzgt
Full Member
I plumb for Z-Tone !
Posts: 151
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Post by wilzgt on Dec 6, 2006 9:53:10 GMT -7
Great input fellows!
Pine sure seems light. My Victoria 20112T is really light. I would imagine the same cabinet made of birch ply would be heavier.
One thing I thought about is perhaps if an amp is bright, you'd need a darker sounding cabinet to even the sound out. Am I off base here?
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Post by billyguitar on Dec 6, 2006 15:34:36 GMT -7
It also depends on the baffle, floating or fixed and internal volume. I don't know enough to guide you. I just know enough to know I don't know enough.
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dave
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by dave on Dec 6, 2006 15:50:07 GMT -7
I bet pine was used by fender in the early days because is was more cheaply available than ply rather than for sonic reasons. Timber quality was far higher 50 years ago as well. There are relativly few concessions to design in the guitar cab world (apart from the Z-best and a few other notable exceptions) but a lot of people sure seem to think that the combination of a quality pine box and a ply baffle is good combination.
I recently got a solid mahogany 1x12 cab and that definitely has its own sound compared to my thick ply/tolex mesa cab. It is difficult to pin down why though because one is open and the other closed back and they have different drivers! The mahogany cab has a V30 in it and despite trying hard to like the sound I keep going back to the Mesa. I've got a feeling a celestion blue or gold will be the best choice for it. It a cool looking cab though and worth more time experimenting with it.
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Post by Don on Dec 6, 2006 16:45:16 GMT -7
If I'm not mistaken, doesn't the Doc use birch PLY for his cabs, not solid birch? Ruger, you are correct - birch ply. What I was aiming at, was the fact that they're not made of particle board (chipboard) or pine. And the construction is first rate. I had to take one of my cabs apart to replace a T-nut, and in the process, got to see how these cabs are put together. I have heard so many good responses from the owners of the Z cabs.
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Post by combo800 on Dec 11, 2006 20:10:35 GMT -7
Certainly, different woods have different characteristics, structurally and tonally. How a cabinet is designed for frequency response and how it is put together all affect the final outcome. But read the last review in this list (which, due to the reversed chronology, really makes it the first review), dated 03/09/2003. It's an interesting comparison between birch-ply and pine cabinets. reviews.harmony-central.com/reviews/Guitar+Amp/product/Trutone+Custom/112+Cabinet/10/1Edit: Grrr... It won't take the entire URL. Copy and paste it in your browser.
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Post by Matt H. on Dec 12, 2006 19:27:00 GMT -7
I think the main reason baltic birch ply is used is for strength and stability. Most strong cabinet drawers are made out of baltic birch. I am only coming from the knowledge of working as a woodworker - wood tonal qualities I know next to nothing about.
On a second note: The 2 Gerald Weber Kendrick cabs I have sound really sweet. Is it the pine? Could be -
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Post by RC on Dec 23, 2006 22:03:58 GMT -7
I've got a 1x12 Pine cab with a birch ply front baffle made by former forum member Zane last year. It's a copy of the original Z 1X12 except for the pine. It's by far the most resonate and alive sounding 1X12 cab I've ever come across. I've tried the cab with a Weber ceramic silver bell and blue dog , alnico blue dog and also a ceramic 12F150 speaker. They all sounded great but the cab with the alnico blue dog was phenomenal. Now that I think about I should probably track Zane down and see if I can get hem to build me another one.
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