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Post by ruger9 on Mar 25, 2006 19:01:48 GMT -7
EF86's seem to be all the rage, in many boutique designs. I notice several of the Doc's amps use them, while some (like the Maz's)don't . What do Doc's "EF86" amps "have" that the others don't?
Or maybe a better question would be, why EF86 instead of 12AX7? I know the EF86 is a higher-gain tube, but that's all I know...
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Post by Deleted on Mar 25, 2006 22:59:01 GMT -7
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Post by ruger9 on Mar 26, 2006 6:31:13 GMT -7
Good reading! Thanks for that. Answered most of my questions. Now, 1 more: all other things being equal, what do the tonal/distortion characteristics of the EF86 sound like as compared to the 12AX7? On Myles' site he site he said the EF86 " has a gorgeous distortion character, much different than a triode such as a 12AX7. " How so? I realize I've got to try to get to some Z amps locally (not easy here in NJ), & try them for myself, just trying to learn something here.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2006 11:10:24 GMT -7
Hi Ruger9, it's hard to describe or compare both tubes because it has less to do with the tube and more to do with the overall amp design. All of Z's amps that use this tube sound different from each other. The Z-28 is his Fender Brownface/tweed amp which when cranked gets in to marshall like territory. The Route 66 is like a JTM-45 but much more versatile some might say even better. The KT-45 is a hiwatt/vox-AC50. The Delta-88 is an agressive Rock/blues amp that sounds similar to a plexi. The one thing these amps have is an amazing dynamic response. The EF86 loves hot signals and will love pedals. I find the distortion created by the tube to not neccesarily be gainy but very defined, clear and articulate. String definition is amazing. Lots of balls to the sound. It is true that you need to hear them for yourself. I don't know where in New Jersey you are at but here is a dealer. I included some in ajoining states. Good luck.
Music Zone • 1880 W. County Line Road • Lakewood, NJ 08701 • (732) 942-9500
In New York Ultra Sound Rehearsal • 251 West 30th Street • New York, NY 10001 • (212) 967-5626
Black Creek Guitars • 10 Main St. Suite 310 • NewPaltz, NY12561 • (845) 255-1296 • sales@blackcreekguitars.com
Massachusetts Boston Guitar Works • 1717 Main Street • Brockton, MA 02301 • (508) 580-0088 • fax:(508) 580-0179 • sales@bostonguitar.com
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Post by ruger9 on Mar 26, 2006 11:38:13 GMT -7
Thanks for the explanation. It's funny- with all this talk of "EF86's take pedals really well", the Maz18Jr- which has a rep for taking pedals very well- does NOT use an EF86.
I've looked up the dealers on Z's site. I'll definitely make it down to one... I won't buy anything costing this much scratch without playing it first, or at least playing the BRAND first.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2006 12:04:28 GMT -7
The Maz18jr and the Maz38sr take pedals well, just not as well as Z's ef86 based amps.
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Post by Curt on Mar 26, 2006 19:54:44 GMT -7
I lean toward the 12AX7 pre amped tubes myself, this is after owning; Route 66, Maz Jr NR, Ghia, Z/28, Mini Z and MAZ Sr. My opinion differs slightly from Arun's here, I will say the EF 86 take pedals Differently, or like different pedals, but each of the Z's I own. have owned have eaten pedals w/o a hickupp They are all killer, but not all for every body, my current persolal fav's of what I have owned are the Ghia and newly aquired MAZ Sr. If I strickly played the '70's rock tones with my Lester the Z/28 would inch out front with the 66 a VEY close second, but I play more alt. country, bluesy rooys stuff with a Tele and prefer the other two I mentioned. Bottom Line, all Z's are great, which one is for you?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 26, 2006 19:59:08 GMT -7
Much better way of putting it Curt. Yeah, I can't say one is better than the other. It all depends on what you like.
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Post by myles on Mar 27, 2006 11:54:33 GMT -7
The simple response here is sort of this.....
On the EF86 .... it is a pentode ... a single tube within it's bottle. It can be configured many ways (Mullard developed the tube for phono preamps originally). Z impliments the tube in a very different way then anybody else out there seems to do. You can configure the circuit for the EF86 to have a gain of 400 or more (a 12AX7 by comparison is about 100). This is the way things are done in Matchless, Bad Cat, 65 Amp London, Victoria Sovereign, and Ben Fargen's amps ... and more. But .... Z uses this tube to push current in a manner of speaking, more than go for very high gain. The pentode will not squash like a dual triode (really two seperate tubes in one bottle in the case of say a 12AX7). So this pentode in the case of the EF86 in Z amps is not as "finniky" and it LOVES pedals as it is much harder to drive into compression and flubby indistinct operation than a 12AX7 when used with high output pedals.
So .... there are different ways to use the EF86 in amp design and the Doc does things differently than anybody else out there, and that is a big part of the magic too.
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Post by combo800 on Mar 27, 2006 12:22:19 GMT -7
Q. All other things being equal... and, in particular, the way Dr. Z wires them in his amps... is the "life expectancy" of an EF86 tube longer, shorter, or about the same as a 12ax7? Just wondering how many to have on hand... just in case.
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Post by Curt on Mar 27, 2006 12:45:00 GMT -7
Pre amp tubes generally last a very long time. You may have one go microphonic now and then but that's about it, Power tubes are what you want spares of on hand.
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Post by myles on Mar 27, 2006 12:54:43 GMT -7
Q. All other things being equal... and, in particular, the way Dr. Z wires them in his amps... is the "life expectancy" of an EF86 tube longer, shorter, or about the same as a 12ax7? Just wondering how many to have on hand... just in case. Let me put it this way .... I have seen original Mullard EF86's in early sixties Vox AC-15's that still work great and spec as great. That is one reason that NOS EF86s at the moment is really the only way to go.
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Post by janinedoubly on Mar 27, 2006 20:43:52 GMT -7
Myles, any word at all from say JJ or any other brand that may be working on a new EF86 or EF806 that will rival an NOS EF86? I love NOS EF86's, but typically even an un-used one will have corroded pins that tend to get noisy sometimes.
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Post by myles on Mar 27, 2006 22:10:41 GMT -7
Myles, any word at all from say JJ or any other brand that may be working on a new EF86 or EF806 that will rival an NOS EF86? I love NOS EF86's, but typically even an un-used one will have corroded pins that tend to get noisy sometimes. I have JJ samples coming into GT any day now. Aspen used to be involved with the Tesla factory a number of years ago (almost bought it actually) .... and is very close to Jan Jurco which is now the JJ factory, so we find it pretty easy to get large batches of samples. I would bet these would be pretty good as JJ does some top notch stuff and their QA is really good. They also build stuff that is particularly free of physical microphonics due to really nice micas with great bottle contact. They have great bottles and glass too. Actually ... the glass on a tube from that part of the world is actually high enough in lead content that is qualifies as a class of "lead crystal" ... so ..... next time your use up a set of JJ output tubes, save them for a present for a wife or girlfriend as it is less pricy than Stuben glass or crystal! I will publish my test results when I have samples and go through them.
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Post by janinedoubly on Mar 28, 2006 8:26:35 GMT -7
That's exciting! Z put a '70's Tesla EF86 in my RXES when he shipped it. It sounds fantastic. I hope their new version is similar. It has more of the Mullard style grey sheild than the Dario/Miniwatt mesh grille. Any big difference between these two sonically or is it more cosmetic?
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Post by myles on Mar 28, 2006 10:50:25 GMT -7
That's exciting! Z put a '70's Tesla EF86 in my RXES when he shipped it. It sounds fantastic. I hope their new version is similar. It has more of the Mullard style grey sheild than the Dario/Miniwatt mesh grille. Any big difference between these two sonically or is it more cosmetic? Cosmetic ... There are solid shields, waffle shields, screen shieds, etc. On tests I did on a ton of NOS EF86's even many from the same "maker" with different shields had the same proper specs and traces. The NOS EF86s are all great but due to changes in things other than the grounded shield, such as plate material and cathode material, they have different sonic signatures. But ... all the NOS ones were right on spec which cannot be said for the new ones that came from Sovtek or Svetlana. It was hard to find 1 in 20 that were even close to production posted spec for the EF86.
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Post by janinedoubly on Mar 28, 2006 20:15:50 GMT -7
Myles, great info!! I really appreciate it. Last question...what can be done to an NOS Ef86 that has corroded pins? Fine sand paper to take it off ? Or any suggestion would be helpful.
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Post by myles on Mar 28, 2006 21:38:58 GMT -7
Myles, great info!! I really appreciate it. Last question...what can be done to an NOS Ef86 that has corroded pins? Fine sand paper to take it off ? Or any suggestion would be helpful. Just insert the tube in a tube pin straightener or even a tube socket a few times ... blow out the dust ... and it will be fine and dandy. The corrosion is very soft and you don't want to sandpaper the pins because you can bend the pins and when you try to straighten them back without a proper tool the force is transmitted unevenly and you can crack the base easily. Get one of these .... I give a lot of folks these who are local .... or something like it from an electronics store. The one on the left is all you need (and it works on EL84 tubes too.... www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1642I fasten these inside of a lot of amps and carry a spare 12AX7 in there. There is a hole in the center that is countersunk.
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