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Post by John on Feb 13, 2006 14:05:55 GMT -7
I know this is the Dr. Z forum, but I am curious about Voodoo Amps mods to my Marshall TSL 601.
(don't worry, I have a MAZ 18)
I've visited the Voodoo website, and they're what I consider vague when it comes to describing what they'll do to the amp. They use very non-technical terms such as "harmonics will leap off the fretboard". Tell me WHY!
Does anyone have any experience with them?
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Post by prowler on Feb 13, 2006 15:01:01 GMT -7
I met Trace at a local amp show last year. He brought a few of his amps along & they sounded great. Voodoo has a good reputation when it comes to modding amps. Your best bet would be to call his shop and work with them to completely understand what they can and cannot do to your Marshall.
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Post by zdogma on Feb 13, 2006 19:37:27 GMT -7
I've heard some that I like, but there are always some bad outcomes, have a look at this www.frankencat.com/voodoo/The guy may be a nut, and some of his complaints are minor, but look at all that black crap.
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Post by prowler on Feb 13, 2006 20:27:31 GMT -7
Interesting... I've never heard anything bad about Voodoo. This is the first time. You may want to see if Germino does mods. I know that Greg is one of the best Marshall guys out there. He may only work on his own amps these days but it never hurts to ask.
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Post by Lefty on Feb 14, 2006 10:40:23 GMT -7
Here's my 2 cents on modding amps. I grew up in the "distortion is king era" ala the 80's. Where everybody loved EVH and wanted to sound just like him and to have a Marshall 1/2 stack at the foot of the bed. Well, being a young lad of limited resources, we had to make do with whatever amp would come our way. I had a buddy who's father owned a very cool Music Store. He had the best of the best around that shop and some at home (Super Reverbs, Twins, Tweeds, etc). And of course the occaisonal Marshall would come in for repair. Every metal head that had a Marshall was screaming MORE GAIN! And pretty much every Marshall head that came into the shop had been hacked, rewired and had lord knows what done to it in order to make it "sound better". I had a Bedrock Lead 50 head (2 EL34's/50watts), think Hiwatt, it looked like one but sure didn't sound like it. I took it to a local tech to mod it for "more bass". When I got it back it had more bass alright but everything else sucked. Now onto my point...finally. I figured out long time ago if you're not happy with an amp, or any other piece of gear...SELL IT! You'll get more for it unmodded, than modded...and I don't care WHO modded it. I've been down the road many times with tweaking my own amps. Nothing major really, bias this, replace filter caps...basic fix it stuff. And I thought, hell with all the time I'm spending fixing these amps I could be playing!! So I put down the soldering iron, picked up my guitar, and bought a Z! I can't tell you the last time I cracked open a chassis.
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Post by myles on Feb 14, 2006 11:14:16 GMT -7
I know this is the Dr. Z forum, but I am curious about Voodoo Amps mods to my Marshall TSL 601. (don't worry, I have a MAZ 18) I've visited the Voodoo website, and they're what I consider vague when it comes to describing what they'll do to the amp. They use very non-technical terms such as "harmonics will leap off the fretboard". Tell me WHY! Does anyone have any experience with them? There have always been Marshalls that fall into various categories, even the same "type" Marshall .... Plexi, JCM800, 900, etc., Sometimes you found an exceptional example and this is where a lot of "mods" came from. Things like capacitors etc., vary in values as do resistors. Put some great expensive oil and paper or oil and foil Jensen caps in an amp with mica or ceramic caps and in most cases there is a clarity that now is there that was not there, etc. Voodoo is owned by a fellow named Trace. They are in New York. Trace is one of the "Marshall" folks that is really an artist when it comes to "mods" and tweeking of these amps. I had seen a lot of his work and was always impressed. I actually was impressed enough that at one point a number of years ago, I contacted him and asked him to start doing my own mod that I do on the GT S-45 amp for folks on that side of the country. He is the only one that I have told how to do my mod on the S-45 as a side comment. In any case, the later Marshall amps (after the JCM 900) are very complex in curcuit topology. There is a lot lost due to this complex and interactive nature of the design. Trace has a number of mods that really improve these amps, make them more reliable, and more player touch sensitive. I guess the bottom line from my viewpoint is that the work is well worth the time and expense.
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Post by billyguitar on Feb 14, 2006 11:22:27 GMT -7
I have a Super Reverb that was an old road dog so I had some Gerald Weber mods done to it. I shouldn't have bothered. I didn't think it was vastly improved. Just more gain. Since I was using an attenuator I could have had more gain just by using a boost pedal and then adjust the overall volume with the attenuator. A person could do the same thing with a Marshall. If your amp has an effects loop you could always run an eq thru that if you're wanting more or less bass etc.. As mentioned above, if you don't like the amp get another. It'll always have it's same basic sound so why bother. I'm not talking about simple mods like disconnecting tremolo or putting reverb on both channels. I'm saying don't let anyone drastically alter your circuitry. There are lots of amps out there that are designed to do what you want. Just get one of those. It'll probably be more reliable than a modded amp too.
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Post by myles on Feb 14, 2006 12:13:31 GMT -7
I have a Super Reverb that was an old road dog so I had some Gerald Weber mods done to it. I shouldn't have bothered. I didn't think it was vastly improved. Just more gain. Since I was using an attenuator I could have had more gain just by using a boost pedal and then adjust the overall volume with the attenuator. A person could do the same thing with a Marshall. If your amp has an effects loop you could always run an eq thru that if you're wanting more or less bass etc.. As mentioned above, if you don't like the amp get another. It'll always have it's same basic sound so why bother. I'm not talking about simple mods like disconnecting tremolo or putting reverb on both channels. I'm saying don't let anyone drastically alter your circuitry. There are lots of amps out there that are designed to do what you want. Just get one of those. It'll probably be more reliable than a modded amp too. I typically do not like to mod amps. I would never mod a Fender amp for any reason. But .... there are various reasons that people do mod amps and in the case of many newer amps a mod can get the amp closer to what the player is seeking. Many times we cannot find or afford the amp that nails what we seek. We get close with a given purchase but then are willing to spend a bit more time and money to try to get the amp closer to what we were seeking. One aspect of Z amps is that "they do what they do and do it well". I have never modded any Z amp other than in one amp I made a simple tone cap change to fit the amp to a specific guitar that was too bright when used with ANY amp. In many high production amps there are also solder flow machine issues and general workmanship issues. Part of what Voodoo does is the mod. The other aspect of what Trace does at times is stumble on to some work that can be "fixed" that was not done properly in the first place. The bottom line here for me is really pretty simple .... If you want a "Marshall" that will play right up there with the best of them and supass most of the rest of them and be more reliable and not modded at all then just go get an SRZ-65 and be done with it for the next few decades.
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Post by John on Feb 15, 2006 8:24:36 GMT -7
For Lefty: I'm not looking for more gain. My God, the TSL series has MORE gain than I ever need. For the crunch channel, I run the volume (gain) at 4 and for the lead channel, I run it at 3. That should be considered pretty low! I like my crunch from the EL34's...that I want to run as loud as possible.
The tone of the amp is pretty good, but what I'm not all that happy with is it's clarity and especially it's responsiveness. After playing it a while, I'm getting the feeling it has an undesirable compression to it. Not a cool overdriven power tube or pushed Celestion type compression. But a 'too much circuitry' type compression. Not enough dynamics. I would be interested in a mod that would provide more dynamics. A bigger/better output transformer?
The amp blew up a few days ago and I've got it in the shop. Judging from what it did, I'd bet it's a shorted output transformer. I don't think I want to install a direct replacement. Does anyone have a suggestion for a better replacement output transformer for a TSL 601? Or a contact of someone who would know?
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Post by myles on Feb 15, 2006 11:33:03 GMT -7
For Lefty: I'm not looking for more gain. My God, the TSL series has MORE gain than I ever need. For the crunch channel, I run the volume (gain) at 4 and for the lead channel, I run it at 3. That should be considered pretty low! I like my crunch from the EL34's...that I want to run as loud as possible. The tone of the amp is pretty good, but what I'm not all that happy with is it's clarity and especially it's responsiveness. After playing it a while, I'm getting the feeling it has an undesirable compression to it. Not a cool overdriven power tube or pushed Celestion type compression. But a 'too much circuitry' type compression. Not enough dynamics. I would be interested in a mod that would provide more dynamics. A bigger/better output transformer? The amp blew up a few days ago and I've got it in the shop. Judging from what it did, I'd bet it's a shorted output transformer. I don't think I want to install a direct replacement. Does anyone have a suggestion for a better replacement output transformer for a TSL 601? Or a contact of someone who would know? Contact the folks at Mercury Magnetics for a great output transformer. This is going to be a bit pricy and in the end you will still have that mass of circuitry and all that "stuff" that your signal has to attempt to pass through. You might want to hit a Guitar Center and play a reissue of a Plexi or the JCM 800 and see how you like the difference or if you like the difference. This may give you more of what you are seeking.
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Post by jonesyfried on Apr 5, 2006 18:16:05 GMT -7
Hello there I have had two amps modded by Trace. Lets me get this point out, he makes them ungodly loud. My TSL 100 put out 120db. No kidding! The Tsl sounded good but it was just way to loud and had two many buttons, knobs and such for me. So I decided to get a Hex modded JCM 800. What an absolute piece of crap, it had a tube buffered effects loop with so many freakin knobs (ok three, still two much) that affected the amp so much it took forever to get you tone dialed in. I finally sold because I hated screwing with the thing so much. I have aso had Trace make me pickups and they sound ok.
I agree with two of the replys here, buy what you like and use it only your ears know what sound is in your head. Second if you want you amp to sound alittle better as one guy here said, Good trannys and chokes (pure clean power), Good matched tubes and good Filter caps. also changing out smaller caps with silver mica. I hope that helps, Trace is a good guy and love the actuall amps he builds (especially the V plex). So in no way is this a put down, it is just my honest opinion.
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Post by John on Apr 6, 2006 13:01:06 GMT -7
Johnesyfried
Well a 100 watt Marshall is going to be pretty much unusable for any club. There's no way to get those four el34's up and burning where they should be. That's why I purchased the two el34 version.
As for everyone else,
Thanks for all the input. I should probably look into a JCM800 reissue. Does anyone know if they make a 50 watt- 1x12 combo? I don't want to lug around a head and push it through a 1x12 cabinet. That looks pretty stupid, but if that's what I have to do, so be it. As for a SRZ-65....try finding one used. As for a 6545...man they are SO expensive. I suppose I could sell my Route 66. Not all that happy with it. It relies too much on pedals. As Myles says: "it does what it does very well." In that case, you better be happy with the initial sound.
I got the TSL back. They just put a stock transformer in it, new JJ tubes and biased it. The tone of the amp is nice, but it does have that compressed sound. As for tone, it sure beats my new Route 66, but the 66 is SO dynamic. I wish I could have the dynamics of the 66 with the tone of the Marshall.
I just can't see modding the Marshall. It is what it is. I figure: the amount of money needed to make it closer to what I want, I could just purchase another amp.
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Post by jonesyfried on Apr 6, 2006 16:35:04 GMT -7
You shoukd try mercury magnetics transformers, look at splawns web site. You can get a lot more dynamic out of your marshall. If you are looking for that cranked 800 tone check out voodoos V-Plex. Also I play very large venues with my 100 watt Marshall as well as I wasnt looking for power tube distortion, just preamp
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Post by jonesyfried on Apr 7, 2006 10:24:03 GMT -7
My modded 800 also blew that TSL out of the water. That thing was insane! Just had to many nkobs I guess that is why I went with a Z. Ahhhhhhhh fianlly tonal bliss!
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Apr 7, 2006 13:30:56 GMT -7
Johnesyfried Well a 100 watt Marshall is going to be pretty much unusable for any club. There's no way to get those four el34's up and burning where they should be. That's why I purchased the two el34 version. As for everyone else, Thanks for all the input. I should probably look into a JCM800 reissue. Does anyone know if they make a 50 watt- 1x12 combo? I don't want to lug around a head and push it through a 1x12 cabinet. That looks pretty stupid, but if that's what I have to do, so be it. As for a SRZ-65....try finding one used. As for a 6545...man they are SO expensive. I suppose I could sell my Route 66. Not all that happy with it. It relies too much on pedals. As Myles says: "it does what it does very well." In that case, you better be happy with the initial sound. I got the TSL back. They just put a stock transformer in it, new JJ tubes and biased it. The tone of the amp is nice, but it does have that compressed sound. As for tone, it sure beats my new Route 66, but the 66 is SO dynamic. I wish I could have the dynamics of the 66 with the tone of the Marshall. I just can't see modding the Marshall. It is what it is. I figure: the amount of money needed to make it closer to what I want, I could just purchase another amp. I got my 6545 used for a reasonable price considering what they are asking for those TSL's down at Guitar Center. And the 6545 RAGES! Great amp from what I've been able to determine in the few days I've had mine. Check the sound clips for at least one clip of the SRZ-65 side of this amp. It RAWKS!
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Post by John on Apr 8, 2006 7:20:52 GMT -7
I was fortunate enough to pick up my TSL 601 for only $625 on Flea-Bay. New, they're going for $1,500.
I would NEVER purchase a new TSL. But for $625, I took the plunge.
I love just about everything about the TSL...for when I'm looking for gigging Marshall sound (and portability).....except the compressed feel.
But there's no way I'm going to dump hundreds of $$$ into the amp without some assurance that it would do what I want.
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Post by jonesyfried on Apr 9, 2006 15:02:52 GMT -7
I have run Chinese power tubes in my marshalls as they seem to have a less of a compressed sound and fell. The Russian tubes Sound to squishy, Also try Electro Harmonix 12ax7 in v1 with 12ax7c Groove Tubes in the other slots. You would be absolutley amazed though at the tone you would get with Mercury Magnetics Choke and Power Tranny. It completely ads a whole new dimension to the Dsl and Tsl series. They have crap power trannys and chokes in them stock. It will be the best money you ever spent, I am sure others here would agree.
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Post by billyguitar on Apr 9, 2006 18:23:35 GMT -7
I don't understand, Marshalls do compress, more precisely they limit. I probably played 150 gigs with a non-master volume 50 watt 1/2 stack and that's what I always enjoyed is the way it would even and smooth out the tone. AC/DC is the perfect example of what I mean. That's what makes it sustain and go into nice feedback. I'm sorry, I guess I don't understand what you guys are meaning. I'm trying though! Maybe what you're talking about is the sound of the cascading tube distortion in the lead channel. You can't do much about that. That's what those circuits do. I wouldn't think too many guys would be playing those amps loud enough to get core saturation in the output transformer. If you can explain what you mean I'll try to understand. Pardon me butting in, I'm just trying to learn.
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Post by John on Apr 10, 2006 5:23:12 GMT -7
Billyguitar...
When I say the TSL has a compressed sound, I'm not talking about a hot running set of EL34's, a cascading preamp, or a pushed Celestion. It's more of a 'too much circuitry' type compression. Hit a light chord and then hit a hard Pete Townsend power chord, and there isn't much difference in the whoomph!!! (as there should be)
I have a vintage Marshall 100 watt Super Lead....also a cascading amp (and a 20+ year old Carvin X-amp) and both have more dynamics than the TSL. Now I have a new (new to me) Route 66, and it's more dynamic than any of the others. (not a cascading preamp)
If the output transformer doesn't receive a dynamic signal, it doesn't matter how good it is. That's not to say a good transformer wouldn't make some difference...as Jonesyfried says.
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Post by billyguitar on Apr 10, 2006 7:28:34 GMT -7
You're right. I think the best for a TSL is at someone else's place! What I mean is, it's not worth modding. It is what it is and if it's not what a guy wants he needs a Z, that's all there is to it!
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Post by John on Apr 10, 2006 8:44:10 GMT -7
Yeah, I forgot to mention, you gigging with a non-master volume 1/2 stack will NOT have the problems of the TSL. Non-master Marshalls are traditionally VERY dynamic amps (for cascading pre-amps)
My vintage marshall is a 1971 (year) non master volume. So I know what you're talking about.
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Post by billyguitar on Apr 10, 2006 10:13:13 GMT -7
Those Marshalls, mine was a 1987X and your 1971, are single stage preamp so they don't have the cascading tube circuit. Boogies were the first to use one preamp tube driving another to generate preamp distortion while keeping the output stage hard and clean. Not a big thing, just wanted to clear up the nomenclature.
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Post by John on Apr 10, 2006 11:43:36 GMT -7
oops, yeah, you're right.
I'm actually looking to pick up a re-issue 1987x. I'll take my time, I'm in no hurry.
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Post by jonesyfried on Apr 10, 2006 22:52:06 GMT -7
I will say two amps Trace makes sound amazing and the is the Fender Champ and the Peavey 5150. He gets some realy nice tone out of them. I can say this as well about the change on my TSL after the power tranny and choke is that the amp was much more dynamic.
Also Z;s are great I hope I never half to sell my Ghia but amn nothing sounds like a cranked JCM 800 from the early eighties. Mine was a 1983, Trace added another Gain stage to it as well. Oh my freakin' goodness there was nothing and I mean nothing like it. I would have never gotten rid of it except it was just way to loud. I am in the process of building an 18 watt marshal with the TMB mod, they sound incredible too. Richie from 18watt's site came up with the design, and they rip!
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Odin
Full Member
Posts: 144
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Post by Odin on Apr 20, 2006 21:57:30 GMT -7
I've visited the Voodoo website, and they're what I consider vague when it comes to describing what they'll do to the amp. They do seem to be secret squirrel type of folks over there, always worrying about someone stealing their mojo. Wearing their tinfoil hats too tight I suspect. They use very non-technical terms such as "harmonics will leap off the fretboard". Sniff...sniff...what's that smell, did I step in something? Oh wait, I know that smell. And I don't see any cattle around here, so that means...yep, that's what it is. Just in case, don't play the amp with your window open. Once those harmonics leap off the fretboard they just might try to escape. And then what? Time for a new guitar, that's what. Good luck unloading a guitar devoid of all harmonics on ebay. I just have to laugh when I read a page full of fancy adjectives describing something as subjective as guitar tone. And there are plenty of companies guilty of embellishing their product descriptions with flowery language. But every now and then it's just plain funny. Guitar players aren't the worst, have you ever talked to an audiophool about $5K speaker cables to go between his fancy schmancy amp and gigabuck speakers made from pure unobtanium? Concerning Voodoo amps, they have plenty of fans and happy customers. Their core customers appear to be heavy metal players from what I've seen online. Some of their tactics make me cringe ("gooping" circuits is just plain silly IMO) but the best thing to do would be to find a happy Voodoo customer with an amp you can try out. There are also unhappy customers... www.frankencat.com/voodoo/
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