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Post by myles on May 23, 2005 13:09:10 GMT -7
Myles... Let me see if I have this correct... The Ghia has 5 tubes in it. 1 ECC83s which is the preamp tube 1 5751 which is the phase inverter tube 2 EL84 which are the power tubes 1 5Y3 which is the rectifier Is that right ? Does the 5751 tube have any effect on the tone of the amp? You are correct. How a phase inverter distorts will affect tone in the ghia.
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Post by kaseri on May 23, 2005 13:11:12 GMT -7
Is that unique to the Ghia? What does the phase inverter do?
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Post by myles on May 23, 2005 13:22:39 GMT -7
Is that unique to the Ghia? What does the phase inverter do? Download my 200+ page tube primer off my website. It will answer a lot of design questions. In short, the PI drives the output tubes.
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Post by kaseri on May 24, 2005 7:39:00 GMT -7
Downloaded the document. Thanks!
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Post by myles on May 24, 2005 8:39:14 GMT -7
Downloaded the document. Thanks! You are more than welcome.
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Post by martyncrew on Jun 3, 2005 12:35:34 GMT -7
I have tried NOS Mazda's in my CG, not really much different from the GTs that came stock, maybe a little softer.
I have a NOS Mullard ECC81 and GT 12AX7M in the pre-amp and really like the tone I'm getting.
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Post by UnclePat on Jun 3, 2005 19:53:55 GMT -7
Anyone other than me ever try a 12BH7 in place of the 5751? Holy smokes... I had posted this over at the Gear Page, and a guy tried it and liked it pretty well. You can get some more clean headroom out of your Ghia if you're "on the bubble" and thinking it might not have enough power for some smaller club gigs. I recently sold that Ghia head to finance my Z-28, but the tube set was NOS Tesla EL84's, NOS RCA 12BH7 and 5Y3 rectifier, and a GT12AX7M. Through a closed-back 1-12" (G12H30) this was a killer rig. I could run it nearly wide open and still get some clean funk by tweaking the guitar volume knob...open it up for the dirt...very versatile! God, I miss that amp. But...a nice one took it's place.
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Post by Bill on Jun 3, 2005 20:21:07 GMT -7
I did the switch to a 12BH7 and loved it...certainly a better method of increasing headroom than replacing the 5Y3 rectifier with a GZ34, which I hated in the Ghia.
Then I sent it off to Z for a needed tweak and it came back with the 5751 back in the socket, all the while sounding kick arse, so I left it alone.
I still have the Ghia but it's been seeing little action since the Z28 arrived...a perfect little package of tone & punch!
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BigMike
Junior Member
The Mykkus Abides
Posts: 89
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Post by BigMike on Jun 4, 2005 9:50:00 GMT -7
I swapped a 12ax7M into the V1 of the ghia and like it a touch more than the JJ. Seems a bit smoother to my ear.
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Post by Lefty on Jun 14, 2005 8:13:40 GMT -7
Anyone try the Sovtek 12AX7LPS in V1 of your Ghia? I have one in V1 of my Z-28 and have had one in there for a while. I find the LPS in my ghia doesn't get as bass mushy as the JJ 83 and holds up a little better on the bass string of my strat retaining a little more clarity. The real b*tch of going from Fenderesque (Z-28) deep sparkly type of tone and then to the Ghia is adjusting to the EQ curve. It's not bad just different than accustomed too. The LPS helps a little in the sparkle dept. I really wish I could get the ghia out in a playing situation to really let her shine. Sometime soon I will, when I'm done with school. Swapping tubes is such an easy fun thing to do with some immediate results!!
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Post by kaseri on Jun 14, 2005 11:40:19 GMT -7
I swapped out the 5751 tube of my Ghia for a balanced ECC81 to see how it would affect the tone. The Ghia still sounded good but the low end "punch" was reduced. As soon as I put the 5751 back in the amp's punch returned. The tone remained the same to my ears with both tubes but the punch is what was affected most.
Anyone able to explain why this is? I don't know that much about the 5751 tube or how it differs from the ECC81
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Post by myles on Jun 23, 2005 13:47:23 GMT -7
Myles... I wish I were close to you but I'm not. Oh well... Well if you are ever in the area drop me a note or a call.
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Post by scr on Jun 23, 2005 15:54:18 GMT -7
Myles, The website says Dr.Z uses the GT 12AX7 S but I don't find it on your website. Is it the same as some other model? Any other recommendations for the 12AX7 slot? Mine came stock with a Sovtek 7025/12AX7WB which sounded pretty good to me but should be replaced soon.
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Post by myles on Jun 24, 2005 12:37:59 GMT -7
Myles, The website says Dr.Z uses the GT 12AX7 S but I don't find it on your website. Is it the same as some other model? Any other recommendations for the 12AX7 slot? Mine came stock with a Sovtek 7025/12AX7WB which sounded pretty good to me but should be replaced soon. What toe Doctor refers to as the 12AX7S is the ECC83S on the GT website: www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1587You say the stock V1 was a Sovtek WB? I am thinking you got the amp used and this was replaced as this is not the factory tube. The Sovtek WA and WB are dark tubes that are not very articulate. I am actually using an NOS Telefunken in V1 of my Ghia at the moment (for the past 3-6 months). I normally find Telefunkens too bright and I think the only amp I can use it in is the Ghia. I also like the Ei 7025 smooth plate a lot (if you find one that is tested properly and has proper specs).
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Post by myles on Jun 24, 2005 12:42:28 GMT -7
I swapped a 12ax7M into the V1 of the ghia and like it a touch more than the JJ. Seems a bit smoother to my ear. It probably would sound smoother as the M does not have the mid peak of the ECC83S. It boils down to personal preference.
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Post by scr on Jun 24, 2005 14:51:54 GMT -7
Myles, The website says Dr.Z uses the GT 12AX7 S but I don't find it on your website. Is it the same as some other model? Any other recommendations for the 12AX7 slot? Mine came stock with a Sovtek 7025/12AX7WB which sounded pretty good to me but should be replaced soon. What toe Doctor refers to as the 12AX7S is the ECC83S on the GT website: www.groovetubes.com/product.cfm?Product_ID=1587You say the stock V1 was a Sovtek WB? I am thinking you got the amp used and this was replaced as this is not the factory tube. The Sovtek WA and WB are dark tubes that are not very articulate. I am actually using an NOS Telefunken in V1 of my Ghia at the moment (for the past 3-6 months). I normally find Telefunkens too bright and I think the only amp I can use it in is the Ghia. I also like the Ei 7025 smooth plate a lot (if you find one that is tested properly and has proper specs). Well... I hope it was new. I certainly paid for a new amp. I got it from an official DR. Z dealer and got the warranty. Maybe the stock 12AX7 was broken in transit and replaced with the Sovtek? Thanks for the info.
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Post by myles on Jun 29, 2005 9:43:22 GMT -7
Maybe but I did not think the Doc had WB's.
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Post by robd on Jul 13, 2005 6:59:02 GMT -7
I have a Tungsram in V1, NOS Tesla power tubes, stock 5751 and the Mazda rectifier. This gives great distortion at a more manageable level, but it still sounds better with an Airbrake. The Mazda takes a little longer to warm up which should prolong tube life, at least that's what I've been told. By the way the tubes are from Mike at KCA. Great guy to deal with. I switch back and forth in V1 with a GT M. They both sound close.
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Post by Curt on Jul 13, 2005 12:59:02 GMT -7
Got my Ghia's tubes from Mike @ KCA also; V1 Raytheon 12AX& V2 JAN GE 5751 Matched JJ EL 84 power tubes
Works well for me, I bought mine of ebay and it sounded terrible...after a few calls Myles told me it was the Boogie EL 84's that were the problem so I yanked every thing except the rectifier and put in the above tubes, now I am a Ghia Faithful.
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Post by G'OlPeachPhan on Jul 19, 2005 10:37:44 GMT -7
My current Ghia tube setup: V1 - NOS Tungsram 12AX7 V2 (here's the difference) - NOS RCA 12BH7 Power section - GT EL84S #6 Rectifier - NOS Mazda 5Y3 I love the Tungsram, but for current production V1 tubes, it's also very hard to go wrong with the JJ ECC83S for a voxey/marshally rock sound in my opinion. I also like the older Ei ECC83 tubes as they have a great chime to them, but they don't have as much low end as the JJ, and they can also have microphonic issues. The big thing for me lately has been the balanced 12BH7 in the V2 PI spot... I just love what this tube does to the overall shape and feel of the tone... Just more open and sweet sounding. Hard to explain in words exactly, but highly recommended. I originally tried this to increase headroom on the Ghia for use with pedals, but found I even like the changes when just plugging straight in. It feels like it gives me more of what the Ghis is all about to me for some reason. The stock 5751 is still a great tube in that spot, and there's nothing wrong with it, but if you've got an extra $22 laying around, give Mike @ KCA a jingle to try something you might really like. The slow warm up accolades of the Mazda 5Y3 are what lead me to try this tube... It feels great (like any other NOS 5Y3), they look super cool with the ST coke bottle shape, and they'll probabaly outlast my lifetime if treated properly. To get this tube to fit in my 1997 Ghia head though, I did have to pull the chassis in order to plug it in, but then it just clears the bottom of the head cab. Just a side note that it may be necessary to do that. As for NOS EL84's, I've never spent money on them. Z says NOS Mullards sound really nice, but the amp just sounds so great with his recommended EL84's that I never felt the urge to drop the extra dollars on the power section. I think this tube is perfect for the Ghia, and I get a ton of hours out of a pair of them so I'm a happy guy. NOS tubes are fun and all, but the Ghia really sounds awesome with the tubes Dr. Z ships them with... So before you spend a bunch of money on NOS tubes and all that jazz, I'd recommend experimenting with speakers first as I think they have a more significant impact on the tone than the tubes. My number one top choice for the Ghia is you're going to use a single 12" speaker would be the Scumbag Scumback SA-12-75hz or maybe a 55hz if you use single coil guitars most of the time. If you've got a 2x12, the pair of a 75hz and a 55hz absolutely cannot be beaten. These are basically a copy of the best Celestion pre-Rola G12H30's ever made. A chimey, sweet, articulate, and tight-bottomed speaker that is a great match to the Ghia tonally. My close second favorite is a well-broken-in Vintage 30. It's been talked about before that this speaker just seems to mind-meld itself to the Ghia's tone control and voicing, and all of this is true. Sounds best to me in a closed or mostly closed back 1x12 cab to accentuate the Ghia's great low end. Be sure to pound this speaker for some time to break it in right so you're hearing the way it will REALLY sound - I can't stress the importance of that enough. It's easy to write a speaker off before it's broken in, but they really do change quite drastically when they're loved and pounded on. OK, I'll shut up about speakers now since this is supposed to be a tube thread... Just wanted to provide info on the most drastic and instantly gratifying way you can tailor the tone of your Ghia to your axe, tastes, and playing style though.
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Post by zane on Jul 24, 2005 1:02:36 GMT -7
;D
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Post by real oldster on Jul 25, 2005 17:52:37 GMT -7
Myles... I wish I were close to you but I'm not. Oh well...
Give it time. He grows on you. ;D
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Post by myles on Jul 26, 2005 10:01:15 GMT -7
Myles... I wish I were close to you but I'm not. Oh well... Give it time. He grows on you. ;D If you know anybody close to me you can have them call or write me. I would be happy to give them a few things to send to you. I hate boxing, shipping, etc. Tubes would be free .... the labor and transport would be on your side ;D
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Post by scr on Jul 28, 2005 8:16:54 GMT -7
A simple change of the v1 tube can make a huge difference. I had an Ei ECC-83 in the v1. There was way too much treble with my Tele for my taste and I thought my combo's 2x10 Dr. Z Special Design speakers were to blame. I even thought about selling/trading my 2x10 combo for a 1x12 combo or head. I changed the v1 with a NOS Trigon/Tung Ecc83 and the difference is night and day. I am now extremely pleased with the sound of my Ghia 2x10 combo and no longer have any thoughts on selling or trading it. I'm going to have to try other tubes if they can make this much difference.
I then found confirmation of this on Myles' website...
I have something of an attachment to the tones and playability of these two amps, the Carmen Ghia and Mazerati. One trait they share is a very simple and clean front end design. There is a single preamp tube before you hit the phase inverter. This is a dual triode as supplied, usually an ECC83 JJ tube.
When one has a clean front end, amps respond really nicely to tube changes and the characteristics of the tube. These two amps respond to these changes amazingly well. On the opposite end of the scale is my Mesa Mk 1, which I use to demo why some amps respond well to tube changes while in others in makes very little difference.
On the Mesa, for those of you that have them .... set input 1 (high cascaded gain using V1 and V2) to the same level as input 2 alone (which only uses V1). When the amp is played using input 2, it is Fenderish in nature, and clean and even somewhat lively. Now hit input 1, and you will hear a loss of definition and articulation, a big loss, even though we are not driving hard, not close to any distortion levels. This is adding more "stuff and complication" in the circuit path. Every component will change tone.
I am not saying this is a bad thing. This may be the tone you are after or prefer.
Back to the Carmen Ghia and Mazerati - very simple and clean front ends in the tone and gain stage. These amps respond dramatically to tube changes in V1. This makes the amps even more versatile than they are stock, and this is just a blast to do with no tools, no adjustments, in just a few seconds.
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