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Post by pvalenti on Oct 15, 2008 9:14:52 GMT -7
Hey all, I'm considering a few minor upgrades for my American Deluxe Telecaster and could use some 'expert advice' from those of you with the experience and knowledge here. First off all...my Tele is pretty new, but tuning has become a regular 'ritual' with me of late even after getting the guitar setup (albeit by my own hand) as perfect as I think it could be (with a strobe tuner). So locking tuners seem to be the way to go. I have very limited experience with these things so I'm hoping that some of you will impart your various wisdom/teachings so that I can make a good choice as to which ones to buy. So far Sperzel's and even the Fender locking tuners seem to be the optimum choices, although I see that there are quite a few manufacturers these days. I'm looking for something with a decently high ratio and something that is first and foremost RELIABLE. Price isn't the issue here although it is of some concern. I'm more interested in getting something that I won't regret and that will last and stand the 'test of time' and the road. Your suggestions/advice is requested and respected. Thanks in advance for anything you can impart here.
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Post by JebusCrebus on Oct 15, 2008 9:49:52 GMT -7
Paul,
Bear in mind that most tuning problems are due to the nut and not the tuners, the string could just be binding in the nut slot. I'm not sure what you have done for a setup but I would make sure the slots in the nut are as smooth as possible, I know a lot of guys that have replaced their tuners only to discover the tuning problem is still present. If your reasonably sure the nut is clean then you could try some nut sauce or graphite just to eliminate the nut as a potential tuning problem area, you may end up saving yourself some money.
[glow=limegreen,2,300]-J-[/glow]
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Post by pvalenti on Oct 15, 2008 10:07:57 GMT -7
Thanks JC...I think I'll pick some of that up as well. I really want locking tuners for the ease of use factor if for nothing else anyway. Frankly I don't see why Fender didn't put them on the American Deluxe Tele's (bearing in mind that they did put them on the Am D Strats) except for the obvious 'trem-bar' factor. I guess they don't think that Tele owners mind tuning as much as Strat owners? lol
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Post by Southern Ill on Oct 15, 2008 11:04:40 GMT -7
What type of locking tuners are you looking at?
As mentioned this is not the fix to tuning problems alot of the time.Might need some nut work or even a different Brand of strings.....
I like the vintage style staggered kluson.....Rock solid tuning stability and no string tree.
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Post by JebusCrebus on Oct 15, 2008 11:06:59 GMT -7
I understand wanting the locking tuners, but my favorite are still the Vintage style, I just really like them.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2008 13:28:20 GMT -7
can anything be easier to deal with than the vintage style slot head gotohs? Get your nut looked at and maybe get some nutsauce too. You aren't doin' the 'blues knot' when you put the strings on are you?
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Post by pvalenti on Oct 15, 2008 14:45:39 GMT -7
Nah...no special knots (to be honest I don't know what your talking about there) or anything. It's just stuck through and wound up normal. However I MAY be leaving too much string wound around the pegs. I really haven't paid much attention to that in the past as most of my axe's were always floating trem/locking nut types. I went ahead and purchased a set of "Fender Deluxe Schaller Locking Machine Heads" and some Nut Sauce. I'll take a good look at the nut when I take the strings off. It's a brand new guitar, which granted doesn't exempt it from nut problems. But still...it's not FAR off now. Just needs tuned a lot. I'm not one of those guys that can have a guitar even slightly off and 'deal' with it. If it's not perfect I'm tuning it. The StroboStompII is a God-send in that regard. Gets it perfect and allows me to do my own set-ups (intonation). I was looking at both the Fender tuners (as mentioned above) as well as Sperzel and Planet Waves locking tuners. In the end the Fender/Schaller's won, mostly because they have the Fender "F" on them! lol That and in looking on MF website I couldn't find anyone complaining about them!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2008 15:41:00 GMT -7
I go down the hole with the string then 2 to 3 winds winding down towards the headstock. no overlapping. New guitar needs the nut looked at. Who knows what gauge the nut was set up for? I imagine w the locking tuners you don't have to even wind that much but you may need to so you can get a good pull down angle across the nut. Nut sauce is good stuff.
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Post by stuey222 on Oct 15, 2008 16:01:44 GMT -7
Yeah, look at the nut and if you still have problems after that, I'd go with Schallers.
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Post by pvalenti on Oct 15, 2008 18:09:22 GMT -7
Just put the Fender/Schaller locking tuners on. Believe it or not they came staggered (although it said nothing about that on the MF website in the item description).
Also soldered in a volume kit (thanks Steve).
The guitar came with 9's on it and I put 10's on it. So you may well be correct in saying I need the nut looked at after-all. The problem is I only know 1 luthier that I trust in KC and he isn't doing it anymore (closed up shop and only does guitars for close friends, unfortunately I'm not one of them).
Most of the privately run music stores are history in KC now since MF came in and GC now has stores all over town. I'll have to try to find a good tech again. Been a while since I've needed one now.
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Post by Southern Ill on Oct 15, 2008 18:37:00 GMT -7
Just use the end clippings from your new strings and use them to open up the slots.....don't go crazy.Just run them through the slots some.If you have some chap stick....Use it and lube it......Me-I just take a nice sharp pencil....darken the slots....Little bit of carmex.I'm done.
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Post by MeZadude on Oct 16, 2008 7:23:11 GMT -7
I use Sperzel locking tuners on a number of my guitars. I also have a couple of Grover locking tuner sets on guitars. I prefer the Sperzel-style. They are the staggered-type, so no need for string retainers. They work great. Nice solid/stable tuning platform. Had Bill Crook use them on the Telecaster he built for me. MeZa
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Post by sae2111 on Oct 16, 2008 7:55:52 GMT -7
I had an american deluxe strat that, despite the locking tuners, would NOT stay in tune. I had a new nut installed and they set it up for the .11s I was using and it made a big difference. Honestly though, even after all that, I still had more turning problems with that strat than I do with my EJ strat. That thing stays in tune all the time. I digress...... It might be a pain, but I'd try to get a new nut.
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Post by nori22 on Oct 16, 2008 8:46:06 GMT -7
All these years & I've never had/ felt a need for locking tuners. Am I missing something?? Is it just a staying in tune thing? or are there additional advantages? I guess I predate the locking tuner. Just asking. Thanks, G.
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Post by Southern Ill on Oct 16, 2008 9:35:35 GMT -7
I do have a set on my Music Man Axis copy.....But without the extra string winds something just doesn't seem right.....Is there a differance in tone...I couldn't tell ta....My best guess would be that like any quality tuner they won't slip if properly used.Mine have a pin/ball bearing that pins the string against the top of the tuner......Be carefull not to over tighten set screw as the lighter guage string will wedge between teh pin and the shaft and get stuck.
I'm with Roscoe and others on tuners....vintage slotted ones could not be easier to use.Hold tune very well and with the extra winds seem to get the string angle from nut to tuner in a more stable better position.
Each his own and this is just what I prefer.
Oh yeah....I had a EJ strat and after setting it up with my string guage and action.....I never had one bit of tuning problems.....this is what sold me on the vintage staggered tuners.Nice stuff.
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Post by pvalenti on Oct 16, 2008 10:31:14 GMT -7
Nori22 it IS a 'staying in tune thing' but there are additional advantages as in QUICK string changes. With these type (shaller/sperzel style) tunes you just pull the string tight and tighten the set screw/thumb screw and cut off the excess and tune up. These Fender/Schaller's that I have are 18:1 ratio and the strings come up into tune in about 1/4 of a turn. So I'd say that I could probably put on a new string (if one should happen to break) in less than 30 seconds and be ready to play again.
As for full-set string changes. I could easily do one of those between sets and still have 10 or 15 minutes of break-time left (we take 20 minute breaks). With the stock (non-locking) fender tuners I'd have to spend most if not all of the break to do a full-set string change.
So I'd say that CONVENIENCE is a BIG plus with these.
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Post by scottguitar on Oct 16, 2008 13:27:21 GMT -7
I had Groover locking tuners on a strat a couple years ago. Some how I managed to break one...not sure if it was a defect in the tuner or if it was user error(most likely problem).
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Post by tele1962 on Oct 16, 2008 20:06:26 GMT -7
...and then I think of poor ole' Roy Buchanan, and all the wild bending he did...and James Burton, and Brad Paisley and Brent Mason today...and I wonder... what the hell were they thinking? No locking tuners?
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Post by pvalenti on Oct 16, 2008 21:48:58 GMT -7
Exactly!
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Post by (8^D) on Oct 17, 2008 21:56:33 GMT -7
Just put the Fender/Schaller locking tuners on. Believe it or not they came staggered (although it said nothing about that on the MF website in the item description). Also soldered in a volume kit (thanks Steve). The guitar came with 9's on it and I put 10's on it. So you may well be correct in saying I need the nut looked at after-all. The problem is I only know 1 luthier that I trust in KC and he isn't doing it anymore (closed up shop and only does guitars for close friends, unfortunately I'm not one of them). Most of the privately run music stores are history in KC now since MF came in and GC now has stores all over town. I'll have to try to find a good tech again. Been a while since I've needed one now. Tom at Guitar Source in OP (95th/Quivera) Super great guy, great work, quick turn times. I trust him with anything I can't or don't wanna do. Tom's worked on all my touring/studio guitars at one point or another. Like the folks at Mass Street a bunch too, but they're not as easy for a pop-in being in Lawrence. Not far, but not "down the street" like GS.
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Post by pvalenti on Oct 18, 2008 0:19:47 GMT -7
Thanks Dan! Much appreciated for the 'hook up'!
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Post by Hohn on Oct 25, 2008 21:23:08 GMT -7
I've had a couple sets of sperzels (3). The ratio is too low, and I find they can't be adjusted as precisely as I'd like. To me, precision matters more than speed in a tuner.
Shoot, I think my Collings even has Sperzels-- non locking, though.
The best tuners I own are the Schallers on my Hamer-- solid and precise.
Fix the nut and most of the tuning problems will disappear, as others have said.
Keep in mind that heavier tuners are believed by some to hurt tone.
I had the Fender units on an AmDel strat-- they worked well enough but didn't seem anything special.
I wind just enough string onthe post to keep it from slipping, and do one over/under to 'pinch" the end of the string. For example, the first winding goes above the tag end, all the rest go below. I like having a steeper approach to the nut that gives a little more downpressure.
JMO
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Post by troutstrat on Oct 25, 2008 23:34:44 GMT -7
I use Grover Mini Locking tuners on my Strats. No only for the locking ability with the tremolo, but they make for the fastest string changing I've ever done. Not so good for setting up a guitar though; the make it difficult to put the strings back on.
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Post by jeffrsn on Oct 26, 2008 12:34:45 GMT -7
I don't miss the locking tuners on my EJ Strat nor Deluxe Ash Tele but I've got a set of Planet Waves locking tuners on my Variax700~ they even trim off the extra sting length by themselves. Way cool
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