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Post by Scott on Nov 10, 2011 15:57:16 GMT -7
Low wattage Maz 18So if you wanted to make your Maz 18 closer to the wattage a Maz 8 produces... Knowing: mike123 wrote: I had my Maz 18's output measured by an amp tech here in Auckland, New Zealand. At my request he tested it with 3 different rectifiers, the results were as follows:
5AR4 rectifier = 18W RMS at clip point & 30W max,
5V4 rectifier = 15W RMS at clip point & 28W max,
5U4 rectifier = 12.5W RMS at clip point & 24.5 watts max.We could infer that running a 5Y3 rectifier would produce around 9.5W RMS at clip point & 20 watts max.Then if you installed the New JJ EL844 tubes w/ 30% less output for Maz... The JJ EL844's Data Sheet: www.tube-town.net/info/datenblaetter/tubes/jj/jjel844-tt.pdfDr. Z speaking on how the torture test went with the JJ EL844's, using the Maz Jr: DRZ wrote: OK I did more testing and the results are:
The EL-844 held up to the torture testing quite well. What they will do long term in the real world of gigging, only time will tell.
They sound very nice, less top end cut and more low end fullness. Which some might like.
But the lower wattage isn't very noticeable, you almost have to ask yourself is that really lower volume.
Again they didn't do as well in the Ghia, I don't know why maybe the higher bias resistor, conjunctive filter, and much lower plate voltage, all added up to loss in good tone IMHO.
The difference in output power is less then one click on the Air-Brake. So not sure if that justifies a purchase, but for 30.00 a pair they might be a nice subtle change of pace.
DR.ZI figure (9.5W RMS at clip point & 20 watts max) - 30% power would get you real close... ;D I do like my Jr. running at 18 watts RMS, just saying if you wanted to...
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Nov 11, 2011 11:30:52 GMT -7
You want it lower, you can get 4 db by pulling that Blue and sticking in a Heritage G12M. That's about like cutting your 18 watts down to about 8 watts or so... now if you did all the things above, AND swapped the speaker, you could possibly have something you could crank in the living room.
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Post by BritInvasion on Nov 11, 2011 12:05:00 GMT -7
Just pull one of the EL84's out. ;D (kidding!! Don't try this one at home , kids )
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Post by John on Nov 11, 2011 12:16:09 GMT -7
You want it lower, you can get 4 db by pulling that Blue and sticking in a Heritage G12M. That's about like cutting your 18 watts down to about 8 watts or so... now if you did all the things above, AND swapped the speaker, you could possibly have something you could crank in the living room. This is hands down...your best bet. The greenback shares so much with the blue in the first place. Both are low powered, both have lush midranges, both have lower bottom end, both break up early.
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Post by Scott on Nov 11, 2011 18:36:30 GMT -7
Good thoughts...
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Post by Scott on Apr 6, 2012 11:37:01 GMT -7
I have one more thing I would like to add: If going for low volume, changing your stock phase inverter tube over to a balanced NOS 12AY7 will give you more clean headroom, but the amps overall volume will be less than before. Not sure if this would also move our wattage down even further... Guessing Yes. Then, providing you have a Brake-Lite, give er 1 click and I bet she would purr like a kitten... And I dare say, after all the above steps taken...
Running a balanced NOS 12AY7 phase inverter tube. The New JJ EL844 power tubes with 30% less output 5Y3 Rectifier Running a Heritage G12M speaker
The Maz Jr. would probably then output LESS volume, than a stock Maz 8?? We probably could also make good use of some low gain tubes in V1 and V2.
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donh
Junior Member
Posts: 80
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Post by donh on Apr 6, 2012 16:03:00 GMT -7
Low-gain tubes are not at all equal to lower wattage.
You just have a situation where you have to push more to get that wattage.
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Post by DSauls89 on Apr 6, 2012 21:42:57 GMT -7
good talk guys. would there be a similar option of reduced wattage for the Rxjr?
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Post by DSauls89 on Apr 6, 2012 21:44:33 GMT -7
it already has a 5Y3 rect. stock. is there another option?
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Post by Scott on Apr 7, 2012 3:35:30 GMT -7
Not that I am aware of...
Once I asked Myles about using other rectifiers in the Jr. other than a 5AR4, 5V4, 5U4, and a 5Y3...
He told me to stick to using those. They gave me a decent assortment of wattage anyway, so I never went any further with it.
I do think the 5Y3 is about the lowest one can go...
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Post by DSauls89 on Apr 7, 2012 8:25:04 GMT -7
yeah. I do like the idea of those EL844's thoguh, I may try some of those soon.
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Post by tjnies on May 6, 2012 6:06:34 GMT -7
Ok, I tried out the premise of the lower-wattage output using the 5Y3 rectifier and JJ EL844 tubes.
I started to reply in my other thread about being indecisive whether I wanted to replace my Maz18 with a Maz8.
I got an NOS RCA 5Y3 since I like the current NOS 5V4 rectifier.
First impression was that there was a definite volume drop. But also that if I did get close to 8 watts, it's a darned loud 8 watts! Without the BL, you still really can't crank for home-appropriate volumes.
So, the BL will still be necessary for higher-gain stuff.
But I had to experiment with the replacement tubes individually to see what made what change (no BL):
1) Went back to my prior NOS tube set - boy, I noticed the difference more by how much louder it now seemed.
2) 5V4 with EL844 - still very loud perhaps a bit less volume, not terribly noticeable seat-of-pants.
3) 5Y3 and my prior NOS EL84. major reduction in the volume and sweeter tone overall.
SO I can conclude that the rectifier makes the biggest difference (as expected), the JJ EL844's sound ok, but a good NOS power tube results in overall better sound.
Since the Tube Store offered a return should I not like my purchase, I think the JJ's are going back, but the 5Y3 stays!
Thanks for the research, guys! Now I can keep my beloved Maz18 and the neighborhood happy!!
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Post by Stan on May 6, 2012 7:25:40 GMT -7
good report thanks for that post also good to know that the 18 can be tamed down to the 8 level with just a tube change if i understand your goal
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Post by tjnies on May 6, 2012 9:44:22 GMT -7
if i understand your goal Stan That was definitely my goal. In the other thread, I was considering selling my Maz18 since I only play at home, it's pretty loud. A Brakelite helps, but I wondered if I should just sell it and go to a Maz8. The suggestion was that I can keep my 18 but educe the output to something more manageable for home.
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Post by Stan on May 6, 2012 10:14:18 GMT -7
if i understand your goal Stan That was definitely my goal. In the other thread, I was considering selling my Maz18 since I only play at home, it's pretty loud. A Brakelite helps, but I wondered if I should just sell it and go to a Maz8. The suggestion was that I can keep my 18 but reduce the output to something more manageable for home. thanks for the clarification, this helps as i'm in my search for the right 1st Dr Z to get and i'm torn between the 8 & 18 and the ghia as well however your findings show it's possible to tame with just tubes now the big dollar question is what tonal changes in the Maz 18 did you notice if any?
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Post by tubeholic on May 7, 2012 1:14:41 GMT -7
Great Job, Tom. Thanks for sharing. I'm getting a 5y3 to try in the Maz for the sweeter tones . I noticed from your signature that you have a little champ 600. That little bugger with the Weber 6" alnico does a really nice low volume grind. I mean, It's still pretty loud but It's acceptable when compared to what the Maz puts out. Or the Ghia. Obviously its no match for Dr Z but Hey, it makes it almost bearable to have my 8 yo Son practicing with the amp cranked
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Post by Scott on May 11, 2012 20:47:52 GMT -7
Thanks for the post Tom... Also glad you liked the 5Y3.
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Post by justblues on Oct 24, 2013 14:42:40 GMT -7
I've been using a Maz 18NR with a THD 2x12 cabinet loaded with WGS Green Beret (their version of the Greenback) and a brakelite usually set on 2. The band plays outdoors on Fridays and I mic the cab. They keep asking me to keep the stage volume lower so ... put in a pair of El844 and 5Y3 ... I'll try it out tomorrow night on a gig and report back.
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Post by justblues on Oct 26, 2013 5:27:43 GMT -7
Okay ... I had mixed results with the above tubes. Using the El844 and the 5y3 definitely lowered the volume and it sounded nice and worked well with the band last night. However, at some settings it sounded like I was using a compressor. As the night went on, my ears "acclimated" to the sound and it worked well. The EL844 tubes definitely break up easier than the El84 tubes I was using. I still used my BL, but set on 1 (prior to the tube swap I had been using the BL on 3 at the beginning of the gig and 2 after the first set).
So... For now, I'm going to leave the tubes in my amp for further testing.
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