|
Post by Grinchmonkey on Mar 19, 2011 15:09:43 GMT -7
Okay, I feel a little stupid (or a little more than normal). I have been experimenting with a few Dr. Z amps lately that i have purchased. They are heads and I have been plugging them into the speakers of my Maz Jr 2x10. When I would finish I would plug the speakers back into the Maz as normal. However, I have just realized that the 2 Speaker Outs on the back of the amp are different. Only one of mine is labeled (8 Ohms), the other is simply blank. I just assumed that I was supposed to plug into the blank one and use the other (marked 8 Ohms) for an extension cabinet. After looking around the site I realize that the unmarked jack is probably a 4 Ohm jack.
1) Am I hurting my amp/speakers if I am plugged in to the wrong setting? 2) How can I tell on my speakers how many Ohms they are? They are Celestion G10 60W Vintage 10 speakers (that is everything the label says). Celestion's website says they come in 8 Ohm and 16 Ohm. With 2 of them together that would make 4 Ohm or 8 Ohm I think (I always forget series/parallel which is which). 3) Is it possible for me to use the existing 2 speakers and ALSO utilize an extension cabinet? If so, would I need a Y cable or is there another way? And which jack would I plug them into?
Thank you for any help you can give.
|
|
|
Post by nicholas on Mar 19, 2011 16:27:38 GMT -7
Hey Grinchmonkey, hope this helps:
Series. Add the speaker impeadance. (2) 8 ohm speakers- 16 ohms.
Paraller. Divide the same speaker impeadance by number of speakers. (2) 8 ohm speakers- 4 ohms.
Series / parallel. Usually used in 4-12 cabs. Two pairs of 8 ohm speakers wired in series, for 16 ohms each pair, then combined in parallel, for a total of 8.
1) There are safe mismatches, and un-safe mismatches. The speaker should always be of the same, or higher than the indicated jack on the amp. A higher ohm speaker will reduce overall power but not hurt your amp.
A lower ohm speaker than what the amp is set for is not good.
If you have an 8 ohm cab, and your amp has two jacks labeled 8 and 4, you could use either jack for different results. If you have a 4 ohm cab, only use the 4 ohm jack.
(2) Usually speakers have a label, maybe on the side of the magnet, maybe not right on the main label. If you cant find a label, the best way to tell is to use an digital volt-ohm meter. You can get a cheap one at radio shack for about 10 bucks. Then simply set the meter to ohms, omega sign, or horseshoe, measure right on the speaker plug. Measure from the tip of the plug to the part just below it. It's seperated by a black or white "washer" and usually called the sleeve.
You wont always get an exact reading however, especially with mulitipler speakers. The reading you get with a meter will always be lower than the individual speaker. Expect between 6-7.5 ohms on your 2-10's, that would make for an 8 ohm cab.
(3) Most of the Z amps have a 8 and 4 ohm speaker out. They are not intended to be used at the same time. You can use a Y cable, or a Stand Alone Brake Light to split. And if using two cabs, they should always be the same impeadance, or ohms. The SA Brake light are parallel, (not positive on the Y cable, but I believe it's parallel as well). So two 8 ohm cabs, with the math given above would be 4 ohms. Plug into the 4 ohm jack.
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Mar 19, 2011 18:22:35 GMT -7
Nicolas has it all correct. If you want more info than you can possibly digest on this subject, I have an article on my blog that is sure to put you to sleep within minutes, but it DOES have all of this info and more: Connecting Speakers to a Guitar Amplifier
|
|
|
Post by Grinchmonkey on Mar 19, 2011 20:47:49 GMT -7
Thanks a lot guys. I will look to see if I can find an impedance listed on the speaker somewhere or else I will go get an ohm/volt meter. I mean, I should have one anyway, probably.
I'm not sure how to tell if my speakers are wired (parallel or series) by looking at them. The cable goes to one speaker and then that speaker runs to the second.
I suppose if I read benttop's article he probably explains that. Thanks again, guys.
|
|
|
Post by Grinchmonkey on Mar 19, 2011 20:53:46 GMT -7
Alas, I can only see the first page of text on your blog Benttop. It stops right before a table that is mentioned.
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Mar 20, 2011 22:41:56 GMT -7
Alas, I can only see the first page of text on your blog Benttop. It stops right before a table that is mentioned. Drat... I hate that.
|
|
|
Post by doctorice on Mar 21, 2011 13:44:44 GMT -7
I'm not sure how to tell if my speakers are wired (parallel or series) by looking at them. The cable goes to one speaker and then that speaker runs to the second. I suppose if I read benttop's article he probably explains that. Thanks again, guys. If both the + and - of one speaker are wired to the corresponding terminals of the second speaker, they're in parallel. If the arrangement has only one wire connecting the speakers, it's series. In that latter case each speaker will have one wire connecting it to the amp/plug that goes into amp. I bet steve's blog post has diagrams. Hope you get it working. If not, search around on Z Talk. There's confirming info posted somewhere.
|
|
|
Post by doctorice on Mar 21, 2011 13:47:37 GMT -7
I should have added that you can pretty easily re-wire a two-speaker cab from series to parallel and vice versa. Usually just involves some soldering/de-soldering and maybe cutting and stripping some wire.
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Mar 21, 2011 22:44:32 GMT -7
Two speakers in series: Two speakers in parallel: Here's the Series/Parallel setup: Assuming all 8 ohm speakers, the series diagram above yields 16 ohms, the parallel yields 4 ohms. The series/parallel yields 8 ohms.
|
|
|
Post by doctorice on Mar 22, 2011 5:03:57 GMT -7
^^^ See? Steve had it, as expected.
|
|
|
Post by Andy 67 on Mar 22, 2011 6:43:23 GMT -7
You guys are an endless source of useful information, thanks a lot. Another 'stupid' question: when wiring two speakers in series, does the first speaker have to be more powerful (let's say, if it's a 40W amp, it has to be rated at at least 40W), or both speakers can be, let's say 20W each? Will the first speaker bear more power than the second or not? Thanks a lot again!!!
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Mar 22, 2011 7:53:58 GMT -7
You guys are an endless source of useful information, thanks a lot. Another 'stupid' question: when wiring two speakers in series, does the first speaker have to be more powerful (let's say, if it's a 40W amp, it has to be rated at at least 40W), or both speakers can be, let's say 20W each? Will the first speaker bear more power than the second or not? Thanks a lot again!!! I've always said no, but I've seen people way smarter than me say yes, so I can't really answer that question any more, because I don't understand how that can be. And that's all I have to say about that....
|
|
|
Post by zorange (Zach) on Mar 22, 2011 11:49:44 GMT -7
Question...If I change the impedence of the cab by rewiring it from 16ohm series to 8ohm parallel, will any damage occur to the cabinet or amp head? Ive been using my orange PPC212 cab which is 16ohm series with the maz jr's 8ohm jack. I was kicking around the idea of rewiring it to make it parallel so that it can match impedences (8ohm cab to 8ohm jack on Maz jr head)
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Mar 22, 2011 14:14:56 GMT -7
Question...If I change the impedence of the cab by rewiring it from 16ohm series to 8ohm parallel, will any damage occur to the cabinet or amp head? Ive been using my orange PPC212 cab which is 16ohm series with the maz jr's 8ohm jack. I was kicking around the idea of rewiring it to make it parallel so that it can match impedences (8ohm cab to 8ohm jack on Maz jr head) No, that won't hurt anything, but it will alter the cabinet's response. Wiring in parallel brings in some physics that affect the low end dynamics. You might like it, you might not. You just have to try it. You might not even hear it. I never could...
|
|
|
Post by zorange (Zach) on Mar 22, 2011 15:39:50 GMT -7
Question...If I change the impedence of the cab by rewiring it from 16ohm series to 8ohm parallel, will any damage occur to the cabinet or amp head? Ive been using my orange PPC212 cab which is 16ohm series with the maz jr's 8ohm jack. I was kicking around the idea of rewiring it to make it parallel so that it can match impedences (8ohm cab to 8ohm jack on Maz jr head) No, that won't hurt anything, but it will alter the cabinet's response. Wiring in parallel brings in some physics that affect the low end dynamics. You might like it, you might not. You just have to try it. You might not even hear it. I never could... What type of effects? Tighter? Rounder? Looser? Fatter? Flabby? More of? Less of?
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Mar 22, 2011 16:14:52 GMT -7
No, that won't hurt anything, but it will alter the cabinet's response. Wiring in parallel brings in some physics that affect the low end dynamics. You might like it, you might not. You just have to try it. You might not even hear it. I never could... What type of effects? Tighter? Rounder? Looser? Fatter? Flabby? More of? Less of? S/B Tighter if I remember what I have read before...
|
|
|
Post by zorange (Zach) on Mar 22, 2011 16:30:24 GMT -7
What type of effects? Tighter? Rounder? Looser? Fatter? Flabby? More of? Less of? S/B Tighter if I remember what I have read before... Thats exactly what I need.
|
|
|
Post by Grinchmonkey on Mar 22, 2011 20:30:04 GMT -7
I finally found stamped in ink on the metal part (technical name) of the speaker that they are 16 Ohm speakers. They are parallel, so I guess I should be using the 8 Ohm jack. Thanks for all of the input, guys.
I am kind of curious now about adding a 2x10 extension cab to it for 4x10. Does anyone play their Maz Jr through 4x10? Any opionions?
|
|
|
Post by nicholas on Mar 22, 2011 20:53:25 GMT -7
I finally found stamped in ink on the metal part (technical name) of the speaker that they are 16 Ohm speakers. They are parallel, so I guess I should be using the 8 Ohm jack. Thanks for all of the input, guys. I am kind of curious now about adding a 2x10 extension cab to it for 4x10. Does anyone play their Maz Jr through 4x10? Any opionions? You will get lot's of good technical info here. Cool you got it figured out. As far as the 4-10 thing, there are some posts around here on that.... might be in the cab/speakers thread's. But If you like your 2-10's, what's not to like about 2 more? I might suggest going with a second 1-12, or 2-12. It would give you some different-ness, and your next Z will sit nice on it! PLAN AHEAD !!! Ha Ha.
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Mar 22, 2011 22:55:00 GMT -7
I finally found stamped in ink on the metal part (technical name) of the speaker that they are 16 Ohm speakers. They are parallel, so I guess I should be using the 8 Ohm jack. Thanks for all of the input, guys. I am kind of curious now about adding a 2x10 extension cab to it for 4x10. Does anyone play their Maz Jr through 4x10? Any opionions? Ah, so here is the deal: Two 16 ohm speakers in series - 32 ohms (you don't want this one): Two 16 ohm speakers in parallel - 8 ohms: Here's the Series/Parallel setup - if all 16 ohms, then you get 16 ohms.
|
|
|
Post by pacificasteve on Mar 23, 2011 0:21:32 GMT -7
Thank goodness there's smart people like you guys out there.
|
|
|
Post by Grinchmonkey on Mar 23, 2011 14:02:52 GMT -7
I forgot to ask... If I get a 2x10 speaker cab and it is an 8 Ohm cabinet. Should I then connect them using a cable like this? procablesnsound.com/items/power-y-cables/power-y-adapter-70002-detail.htmThat would mean my combo at 8 Ohms and an 8 Ohm cabinet would plug into the 4 Ohm jack? I think I am right on this. I also think it makes the most sense to use a cabinet that is also 8 Ohms. If it were 4 or 16 I'm not sure how the math would work.
|
|
|
Post by benttop (Steve) on Mar 23, 2011 14:24:19 GMT -7
I forgot to ask... If I get a 2x10 speaker cab and it is an 8 Ohm cabinet. Should I then connect them using a cable like this? procablesnsound.com/items/power-y-cables/power-y-adapter-70002-detail.htmThat would mean my combo at 8 Ohms and an 8 Ohm cabinet would plug into the 4 Ohm jack? I think I am right on this. I also think it makes the most sense to use a cabinet that is also 8 Ohms. If it were 4 or 16 I'm not sure how the math would work. That is exactly how I do it here. Two eight ohm speakers - use the 4 ohm out.
|
|