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Post by Scott on Aug 31, 2010 23:16:37 GMT -7
Going to be ordering my second Z Cab within 9 Days!! Currently have my Maz 18 Jr NR Head, going into the Dr's 2x10 Cab. I just want to run a second 1x12 8 ohm Cab in parallel, for more tonal variation in my sound. I will be ordering it in the next week. I am torn between having it loaded with a Celestion Blue, or a Celestion Greenback. I know, way different sounds. I am leaning toward the Blue. The Maz Jr NR does sound good through Greenbacks though... www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=660407&content=songinfo&songID=9558569Tough call! I wonder how much of a volume difference I will notice between Cabs? A Dr Z Cab running 1 bigger, more efficient 12" Blue... -VS- A Dr Z Cab running 2 of the Dr's 10" speakers, having sheer number on it's side? Probably would be close... I will also need one more: Studio Slips Padded Cover - Dr. Z Logo - 1x12 and 2x10
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2010 6:57:00 GMT -7
I can't speak for anybody else's ears, but I sure do like my Maz Jr NR through a blue.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Sept 1, 2010 7:50:55 GMT -7
Well I do not have the 2x10 cab (can't say why, just never went there), but I do know they tens are pretty efficient. Having two in there also adds to the SPL a tad. So adding a low efficiency 12 to the mix, it is likely that you won't hear it all that much. But a Blue, yeah, you'll hear it. Oh yeah, and the Blue sounds pretty doggone great.
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Post by markT on Sept 1, 2010 7:58:11 GMT -7
BLUE.....BLUE.....BLUE!!!
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Post by Scott on Sept 1, 2010 11:34:25 GMT -7
Thanks for the input... 98.753246% Blue in my mind right now.
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Post by helmi on Sept 1, 2010 17:03:55 GMT -7
Blue, all the way!
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Post by Scott on Sept 3, 2010 7:08:02 GMT -7
Just bought the 1x12 Blue Cab! She is officially mine, and I am going to (2) Cab Status.
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Post by markT on Sept 3, 2010 7:16:00 GMT -7
Congrats on the BLUE!! You will not be sorry. Just give it plenty of break-in time. I have heard that the Blue and the Doc's 2-10's are spectacular.
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Post by Scott on Sept 3, 2010 7:35:06 GMT -7
Thanks... I will give her some quality break-in time for sure! I am excited. I have wanted an official Blue for a long time. Also, the advantage of running a Head will be fun now too. I can run with any cab combination that I like. Maybe the Blue only one night, then the 2x10 on another? Running with both however, will be my normal config for sure.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on Sept 3, 2010 7:35:27 GMT -7
You are in for some swirl now!
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Post by Scott on Sept 3, 2010 7:51:09 GMT -7
Do I want the Cabs next to each other when I am in the basement at home, or one at each end of the basement, with me standing in the center? ;D
This is going to be one massive wall of sound...
Pictures to follow, stay tuned.
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Post by Jan on Sept 3, 2010 11:46:44 GMT -7
It depends on the room, obviously. But you might be surprised to find that standing in the middle between the two speakers you could have some standing waves and cancelation going on. That means chunks of frequency that seem to disappear. Either way, some attenuation and hearing protection is a good idea.
On which will be louder, hard to say without some real data. I recall Brent saying the 10"s were rated at 102 dB and the Blue is rated at 100 dB. But these numbers are always a bit misleading because the human ear does not have a flat, linear response. For the same SPL within our range, we hear higher frequencies as louder. So collect some data and tell us what you think.
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Post by Scott on Sept 3, 2010 15:39:46 GMT -7
I will report back for sure.
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Post by Scott on Sept 3, 2010 17:29:21 GMT -7
This is my parallel speaker splitter cable. Quality for sure... pcns (Todd) wrote: It's finished everyone, the Y adapter is finished and ready for a peak. I cannot see a way of posting a picture on this site so I will add to my company site. Sorry if it looks like a sale plug but this all started by trying to help Jason out with Y cable.
Here are some stats on the Y adapter: It is wired in Parallel so you can use a 4omh output on your amp with 2 8ohm speaker It can be wired in series as well Right angle connector is by G&H and is a solid core 1/4" connector with a large opening out the back The female large bodies are by Switchcraft and are awesome beefy connectors. The cable is 14 gauge high quality, high strand copper speaker cable The over all length is 9 3/4", its about as short as we can make it because connector shells need to fit in between the themselves in order to assembled. The junky molded cables can be shorter but they have a high failure rate and are impossible to repair, that's why we don't use them. Lets see, what else, what else, oh, ya, we shrink tube everything so it stays together, we even shrink the cables inside the connectors so things don't ever short out while being flexed.
procablesnsound.com/items/speaker-cables/power-y-adapter-70001-detail.htm?1=1
I have set up a special coupon code for Dr Z forum members. If you ever purchase anything from us please type in the word "zamps" in the coupon code box during check out for a special discount. Please put your member name in the comments section during check out.
Todd I love the thing.
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Post by Scott on Sept 5, 2010 11:29:00 GMT -7
My new Dr Z Convertible Cab was delivered at 2:00PM today. ;D It has a very solid feel to it, and no dings of any kind were present on the Tolex. The removable panel has 6 machine screws, that can be easily taken out. It's not quite as open as a 'dedicated open back Cab', but considering you have the option to convert it back over to a closed back Cab, I still consider it a nice feature. I opted to run with the panel off, to let the Blue breathe a bit... I also verified that the Blue was from Ipswich England. Set her up, and plugged er in... So I was reading about how to properly break in a Speaker... And at a site talking about the Chinese made Vox Blue, it had this info posted: vintageamps.com/plexiboard/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=82411From Celestion's website: "How do I break in my speakers?
Important Note! Before breaking it in it's advisable to "warm up" the speaker gently for a few minutes with low-level playing or background hum.
Break in a speaker with a fat, clean tone: turn up the power amp volume to full, and control the level with the preamp gain. Use a level that will be quite loud, but not painful in a normal size room.
Have the bass and mid up full, and the treble at least half. On your guitar, use the middle pick up position (if your guitar has more than one pick up) and play for 10-15 minutes using lots of open chords, and chunky percussive playing. This will get the cone moving, and should excite all the cone modes and get everything to settle in nicely. The speaker will continue to mature over the years, but this will get it 95% of the way to tonal perfection in the shortest time".Never heard that before, but I think I will try that procedure on my Blue. I know I can coax a fat, clean tone out of my Les Paul and Maz Jr. I changed my Brake-Lite over to the 4 ohm out on the back of the head, due to me now running (2) 8 ohm Cabs in parallel. I also set the Brake-Lite to 0 allowing all the watts to flow. (Just for the record, us Maz boys believe the Jr actually makes 18 watts RMS, and 30 watts peak.) Next I set the Bass and Treble to full on, Middle 50%... Then I warmed the speaker up for 15 minutes with low, clean playing. (Sounds sweet with outstanding highs.) Then, still keeping it clean, I went for some higher volume. (I love it, and can hear the Blue for sure.) The Blue will still be breaking in for some time, but I can tell right off that the Dr's 10's, and the 12" Blue do indeed have different voicings. I think that they should compliment each other nicely. As to my question as to what Cab is louder, I am going with the 2x10's, but not by much. The new look of my ManCave: Z ZZEven standing with my head right between the 2 Cabs, it is hard to pick the loudest. (And that's at any volume!) The frequency your currently playing, might be the biggest factor? Just the kind of situation I was hoping for. So far, I love the Cab, and the Blue.
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Post by Scott on Sept 11, 2010 23:46:24 GMT -7
On which will be louder, hard to say without some real data. I recall Brent saying the 10"s were rated at 102 dB and the Blue is rated at 100 dB. But these numbers are always a bit misleading because the human ear does not have a flat, linear response. For the same SPL within our range, we hear higher frequencies as louder. So collect some data and tell us what you think. I wanted to get back to this thread one more time, and changed the Topic to: 2x10 Dr Z Cab, and 1x12 Celestion Blue together.More descriptive title for others, also considering running with the same speaker mixture. Jan, I wanted to thank you one more time with the info on the 2x10 Cab being rated at 102 dB, and a 1x12 Blue being rated at 100 dB. I think that is accurate, and both cabs do indeed produce 'real close' to the same amount of volume... ;D Others considering the same config, should have no fear of running this way, if concerned about having a good volume balance between the Cabs. Simply put, you will...
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Post by asattwanger on Sept 12, 2010 13:00:51 GMT -7
The only issue I see is you need to get rid of that wood stand and stack those speakers and head up. I'd put the Blue on top of the 2x10 cab.
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Post by Scott on Sept 12, 2010 16:25:19 GMT -7
I was thinking the head would get vibrated less this way.
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Post by asattwanger on Sept 12, 2010 18:56:26 GMT -7
I don't think that matters any, but what ever you like. Your room is still pretty cool.
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Post by Scott on Sept 12, 2010 21:17:51 GMT -7
Thanks man... I think having my Cabs in the air, I get a +1 for sound projection, but a -1 for bass. Considering the amount of bass I am currently getting from my speakers, having my Cabs up off the ground is just fine with me. (Fine with the wife too I bet!) I also get a +1 in case of an unexpected basement flood. I am however considering if I should put some kind of foam behind the Cab's, and attach it to the brick wall. I have seen it posted that having a harsh, flat surface like a brick wall directly behind an open back Cab, can be a sound-man's nightmare? Maybe that is only for loud volumes, or when recording? Not sure... I also have this post stuck in my mind: drzamplifiers.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=maz18&action=display&thread=32121One important general thing to note: Bass response and apparent bass tightness will typically be HEAVILLY influenced by where your amp or cab is placed relative to room boundaries and back walls in particular. Many of us place our amps/cabs up against or close to up against a wall, and in doing so we are usually reinforcing bass to a significant degree. I have found my MAZ18 NR + Z 1-12 Convertable with a broken in G12H30 to be very bass heavy, however I've had the amp close to a back wall. When I moved it out into a room a few feet the bass became more manageable and much better integrated and I was able to run the bass control up to at least 9 o'clock or slightly higher, where it was nearly off when up against the wall.
I wish I had done this when I had a Celestion Gold and was deciding between it and the G12H30. I dumped the Gold because subjectively the bass was too loose, but I did prefer the midrange and top end slightly over the G12H30. I may have liked the Gold's bass response had I tried it in a different physical position, and if so I would have hung onto it. With my experience in high rez audio, I should have known beter so shame on me, although the G12H30 works great in this amp provided you give the speaker at least 50 hours of hard core break-in (Others claim at least 100 hours!). This is also one of my favorite videos stressing how important the room your playing in, can, and will, change your sound. Just for more trivia, I went to GC and grabbed (2) matching 10' Speaker cables to plug into my splitter cable. Went with these: accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Monster-Cable-Performer-500-Speaker-Cable-14?sku=331673&CJAID=10451188&CJPID=3747368Probably not the best in the world, but hopefully not the worst. I will have the option to spread the Cabs out some day... That should be fun too. ;D
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Post by Jonny Moonrock on Sept 14, 2010 16:26:59 GMT -7
Great looking rig! Are you hooking that up to the Maz with some kind of converter? I've been thinking about this kinda move myself, but I'm ohm-simple I'm afraid Cheers John
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Post by Scott on Sept 14, 2010 17:08:06 GMT -7
Thanks John! I am having a blast with my setup... All I need to do is plug the Brake-Lite into the 4ohm out of the Maz, then use that speaker splitter cable I posted above, plugging it into the Brake-Lite. Then both of the Cabs speaker cables, get plugged into the splitter. That cable is wired in parallel, so (2) 8 ohm cabs running in parallel = 4 ohms. The Brake-Lite doesn't care if you plug him into the 4 or 8 ohm out of the amp. It just works. My buddies old fish-tank stand, never had such a fun job, as holding two Z-Cabs up in the air. I figured I would go with the splitter, then plug any length speaker cable(s) into it, that I wanted. You could also just have a custom cable made to the length you like... Pro: Might have a bit less resistance that way? Con: It would then be fixed length, having a maximum. I opted to go the splitter route.
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Post by Rich (fbb90) on Sept 16, 2010 7:06:25 GMT -7
On which will be louder, hard to say without some real data. I recall Brent saying the 10"s were rated at 102 dB and the Blue is rated at 100 dB. I was under the same impression that the Z 10"s were efficient speakers. However, that is not the case. Brent emailed me their actual efficiency. It is 96.7 db at 1w/1m. They are much less efficient than what I had originally thought. In my opinion, My Celestion Gold, rated at 100 db, overpowers them a bit. Whereas my Celestion G12-65 fits well w/ it's lower efficiency. The Blue might be a little much paired w/ the Z 10"s. But as you stated, Jan, the pair of 10"s may increase the perceived dbs.
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Post by Scott on Sept 16, 2010 7:22:48 GMT -7
Thanks for the info Rich, on the Dr's 10's... "Brent emailed me their actual efficiency. It is 96.7 db at 1w/1m".
This would make the (2) 10's even closer in volume to 1 big, bad, Blue. The (2) 10's do move more air working together, than a single 12 can. 96.7 gives the single Blue some needed advantage back, to help cancel out sheer number.
Neither me or my wife can pick the louder Cab for sure, between the two... But I am still going with the (2) 10's by the slightest amount, over the Blue.
Running the stock Rectifier tube, the Maz Jr. produces 18 watts RMS, to 30 watts Peak...
That means for me, running with my two Cabs in parallel ( 2x10 and a 1x12 ) If needed, I can feed the Dr's 10's 4.5 watts, up to around 7.5 watts each. And my 15W Celestion Blue, would have to brunt 9 to 15 watts all by itself.
4.5 + 4.5 + 9 = 18 Watts RMS 7.5 + 7.5 + 15 = 30 Watts Peak
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Post by Scott on Sept 16, 2010 17:30:37 GMT -7
Sorry to double post, but this info is big to me... ;D I posted a question in this thread: I need a speaker efficiency volume calculation man.www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1362251And received my answer... Vinson posted:"Theroetically, the 2x10 should be 99.7dB at 1 watt/meter vs. the 1x12 at 100db The volume should be imperceptible...but if the 2x10 has more midrange, it will sound louder.
96.7dB to start...double the surface area(+3dB)=99.7dB
I'm not sure what happens when you start adding much more power. I would expect that the speakers would loose efficiency once they start to break up...the 2x10 would break up less as each speaker is getting 1/2 the power of the 1x12. So as the volume goes up, the 2x10 might pull ahead....this is just a guess though".I was glad to get the info that "The 2x10 Cab should be 99.7dB at 1 watt/meter, -VS- the 1x12 Blue Cab at 100db", confirming that these two cabs go well together volume wise... I also do believe that the Dr's 10's are punchy, midrange heavy, big bass speakers. That is why I probably perceive the 2x10 Cab to be a wee-bit louder. When I get into the upper range of frequencies, I probably will hear the Blue more... Isn't that the ideal situation we all hope for, when running two different types of speakers? They both are close in volume, allowing for the (speaker or Cab) best suited for the job to shine. Sweet!
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