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Post by bluesdude7 on May 13, 2010 21:31:21 GMT -7
Hi, pretty bold statement I know but I 've been playing my Maz 18 Jr. 1x12 combo for around 4-5 years now and it has changed my life. I've been in tone bliss with my strat playing blues. I needed more headroom for some bigger gigs and Dr.Z told me its a no brainer, just buy a 38, same amp, more power. So I bought a 38 1x12 combo on ebay in great shape, and didn't like the sound. came with a tone tubby hempcone. So I ordered a complete new set of tubes, exactly what Dr. Z layed out on they're website, sounded the same. Loaded in a Celestion Gold, sounded the same, I don't like it. My Maz 18 Jr. sounds way warmer with bigger bottom end, it has a G12-H Anniversery. I hooked that speaker up to the 38 still sounds like a SS rect. as apposed to a tube rectifier or something. My Maz 18 sounds way better. But I need more headroom on many gigs. very frustrated. I'm thinking maybe just try a more powerful speaker in my 18, may push it up a fair bit maybe. any thought much appreciated.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on May 14, 2010 12:06:55 GMT -7
Fascinating. Not sure what I would recommend, but speaker choice seems to be the biggest factor in tone differences. You've already gone there though. Tubes as well. Not sure, but maybe your Sr needs to take a trip to Ohio?
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Post by brightlight on May 14, 2010 15:09:56 GMT -7
depending on the age and usage of the 38 it might not be quite broken in yet. Mine seems to be sounding smoother every day and I also originally had a few gripes with the sound. I kept giving the 38 a chance knowing that it was a great amp from a great maker and that other people have gotten it to sound like sonic gold. Now that I've given it time I've come to really love my 38
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Post by "Z" Steve on May 14, 2010 15:27:02 GMT -7
Not sure of your location but if there's a chance of you playing another Maz 38 before you make your final decision it may be a wise choice. What you are describing does not sound at all like the amp we are familiar with. I mean, it may not be everyones favorite Z, but it isn't what your describing either.
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Post by flapp on May 14, 2010 20:00:07 GMT -7
I also own a Maz 18 and a Maz 38. I have had the 38 for only a few months. I understand your feelings on the matter. I found that my pedal board was not sounding the same with the 38...but I also noticed that I could still make it sound quite good. It occurred to me that you have to "re-set" your pedals (or what ever you are adding to the chain) to work wth the Maz 38. For instance I found my KOT wasn't as inspiring with the 38 but my Box of Rock was killer. Maybe you need to look at it like a new amp, not just a louder version of the amp you have...if that makes sense.
I have a 38 with 2 -12" golds...which sounds good but still needs to break in. I don't agree that the 38 is the 18 with more head room. I feel it is a different amp with similar sound and feel. Some tweaking may make the difference for you. A clean 38 with a quality guitar is a beautiful thing. Don't lose sight of that...just tweak and adjust . I feel confident that my 38 will become the amp I never turn back from.
F
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solomnos
Full Member
"Wil traid food4gear."
Posts: 175
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Post by solomnos on May 15, 2010 0:33:15 GMT -7
Yeah, if you're using pedals, I think that what Flapp is saying is definitely something to consider. Either way, it is a different amp...and shouldn't necessarily be treated as if it is the same exact thing but louder. The tonal universe is huge, and the concept of breaking in an amp is fascinating.
Could it be an option for you to mic the Maz 18 for larger gigs?
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Post by heynewguy (Ol’ Bill) on May 15, 2010 4:02:08 GMT -7
I also have both. Never get much of a chance to use the Maz 38 unless it's a big venue or outside. Something sounds a little wrong here. Did you replace all the tubes? Do you have a NOS rectifier? Hope you get it right.
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Post by benttop (Steve) on May 15, 2010 8:53:00 GMT -7
There is only one way to get double the power of the Maz Jr NR and have everything be exactly the same - feel, squish, etc: Run two Maz Jr NR amps.
That said, my Sr sounds amazing, so I'm surprised you're having this reaction to yours.
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Post by brightlight on May 15, 2010 15:05:52 GMT -7
I have to agree with with flapp and salamnos about the 2 amps not being the same. When I go to my usual local music store to try out guitars/pedals I always have to try them on an 18 instead of a 38 like I have because the 18 is already setup in the test room. Then when I take a pedal home it always sounds a bit different, which I guess also has to do with the guitars being used.
I suppose this is similar to people assuming that a Vox AC30 is the same sound as an AC15 with more headroom - wrong!
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Post by wubberdubber on May 16, 2010 17:45:04 GMT -7
Ditto on that...I had my 38 a few years before I got around to getting the 18, and found that they are definitely two different amps , with different tone and response. If you're having trouble with headroom on the 18, you might try a good NEW set of tightly matched power tubes. I just changed mine (after one went out on the gig...they were old), and WOW, I had to back everything down a couple of notches, including the overdrive pedal. It seems just about as loud as the 38 right now.
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Post by tdarian on May 18, 2010 7:24:04 GMT -7
Have you tried using the LO input on the 38? I believe it is -3db from the Hi input, and theoretically the wattage difference beween an 18 and a 38 translates to about 3 db of difference, although it seemed like the 38 was way way louder to me.
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steveo
Junior Member
Tone Junkie
Posts: 76
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Post by steveo on May 18, 2010 18:32:11 GMT -7
Run an EV SRO (Alnico) in an extension cabinet Mesa Thiele or possibly a Z best. It is one of the most efficient speakers you can get and sounds huge with my MAz 18. How does the Celestion gold sound with the Maz 18?
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Post by ScottStrat on May 19, 2010 3:58:29 GMT -7
I have to agree with with flapp and salamnos about the 2 amps not being the same. When I go to my usual local music store to try out guitars/pedals I always have to try them on an 18 instead of a 38 like I have because the 18 is already setup in the test room. Then when I take a pedal home it always sounds a bit different, which I guess also has to do with the guitars being used. I suppose this is similar to people assuming that a Vox AC30 is the same sound as an AC15 with more headroom - wrong! Good point on the AC30 and AC15. The sonic difference is I scream much louder when I pickup the AC30 than when I tote the AC15 around. ;D But seriously folks, heck, I think there are significant sonic differences between by 38 (head) and my 38NR (head).
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Post by prsnstrat on May 19, 2010 10:03:32 GMT -7
I second the Z best or try an Eminence Wizard in the combo to make it louder.
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Post by brightlight on May 19, 2010 10:18:23 GMT -7
I have to agree with with flapp and salamnos about the 2 amps not being the same. When I go to my usual local music store to try out guitars/pedals I always have to try them on an 18 instead of a 38 like I have because the 18 is already setup in the test room. Then when I take a pedal home it always sounds a bit different, which I guess also has to do with the guitars being used. I suppose this is similar to people assuming that a Vox AC30 is the same sound as an AC15 with more headroom - wrong! Good point on the AC30 and AC15. The sonic difference is I scream much louder when I pickup the AC30 than when I tote the AC15 around. ;D But seriously folks, heck, I think there are significant sonic differences between by 38 (head) and my 38NR (head). hahaha yeah they're heavy beasts, those 30's. My Maz 38 1x12 is heavy as hell, too. I dont know how some people could tote around a 2x12!
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Post by pintail78 on Aug 10, 2010 20:24:01 GMT -7
I had a really close to new 2008 Maz 38 reverb head, it seemed tiny and thin and harsh at times. I just picked up a 2003 same head and its warmer and actually hard to get a bad tone out of, the only difference is that it has a 5V4 rectifier instead of the GZ34, i havent put a gz34 in it to check it out. The older amp-either by age or design? is much warmer and more versatile than the newer one.
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Post by countrybilly83 (Ty) on Aug 10, 2010 20:51:05 GMT -7
It's been interesting reading here... I am going to maybe suggest something odd but...
Since the Jr. is 18 watts and you are maybe pushing it.. The 38 might not be getting pushed enough to get it into the same "tonal" zone for lack of a better word.. Maybe need to try a brake lite to get more drive happening in the 38.
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Post by pintail78 on Aug 20, 2010 19:33:45 GMT -7
you need to push it to get the same tone so either a brakelite or even a tubescreamer will help. the amps have the same front end and similar tone, but as they are tube amps they need different amounts of push to get similar tone....at least thats my take.
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dparel
Junior Member
Posts: 55
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Post by dparel on Sept 5, 2010 16:01:14 GMT -7
I can't say I hate my Maz 38 but my Jr's and Ghia just sound soooo warm and punchy and my Maz alot of times sounds harsh and cold. I felt I was always turning dials to try to get a good tone. I keep thinking maybe I need to experiment with tubes but I haven't done anything to my Jr's or Ghia since I bought them all used. I wanna love my Sr... since it does have a bit more clean headroom for louder gigs but it has sat on the bench for the last couple of years.
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Post by pintail78 on Sept 18, 2010 16:02:18 GMT -7
one more thing try a 5V4 rectifier, i have one in my 38 and it gives it more sag, i like it better.
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Post by harry on Oct 8, 2010 9:45:35 GMT -7
I have both an oddly I prefer my 38 over the 18 as I found it more dynamic. Both are great amps. I wouls agree with the need to krank the 38 a little more to get it sweeter sounding.
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butcherboy
Junior Member
Hmmm..where did I hide that bottle?!
Posts: 96
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Post by butcherboy on Oct 18, 2010 18:05:27 GMT -7
No sure if you mean headroom- clean headroom or If you are meaning headroom as the maz 18 is not loud enough for the larger gigs. But most people here who just wanted to get more volume from their Maz jr., not clean headroom, just volume, say that the extension cab is the way to go. Once they got a 1x12(or 2x10) cab their problems were over. Just remember reading that in a few threads. Definitely cheaper than buying another amp. Maybe some of those here with the ext. cabs can weigh in on this. Butcherboy
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Post by shawnee on Oct 24, 2010 6:22:11 GMT -7
I agree with countrybilly and pintail. If you are "almost" loud enough with the Jr, then you probably aren't pushing the Sr enough to get "that" sound". My suggestion would be: 1. Try a GOOD boost pedal. It may give you enough extra volume to stay with the Jr. 2. Try the brakelite on the Sr like someone else suggested. 3. Speaker efficiency is HUGE when talking about volume but the Celestion G12H30 anniversary speakers are rated at 102 I think. That's way up there compared the the Heritage series and a lot of other speakers. A different speaker is probably not going to solve your problem.
Even two Jr's may not sound "exactly" the same. Tube amps are weird like that so a Sr and a Jr may never sound close enough for you. On the other hand, they may sound similar enough but just "feel" different. You may find that it is a great amp and just takes a little getting used to the difference.
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Post by kingink on Nov 8, 2010 17:38:47 GMT -7
Hey Bluesdude7, have you resolved the 38 question? Just curious.
I use an attenuator with my 38. I think the master on the 38 has to be at or above 9:00 for the amp to _start_ giving up the goods. If you're below that, it'll be pretty cold and stiff. If you can crank the master to 2:00, you'll really get some thick warmness. I don't know how you set your 18, but for lots of creamy, woolly yet still tight saturation on the 38, I run the master at 2:00 and the volume dimed. I usually use the Buddy Whittington EQ setting: bass 10:00ish, mid and treble 2:00ish, cut 9:00ish. I don't remember how BW sets the verb.
This is pretty dang loud, and I play through an Earcandy 2x12 at home and 2 Z Bests live, so attenuation is the key (though I don't always turn the master up that loud at gigs).
I've never played an 18, but I imagine it's squishier than the 38 and I've heard it's got more gain too. The 38 is pretty tight and bright, which I like a lot.
I agree that if you just want to make the 18 louder, try an extension cab with a really efficient speaker, or even try a Z Best.
Hope this helps!
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Post by jashobbsie on Nov 12, 2010 23:32:10 GMT -7
what is there to hate? i love it, pure tone.
Cheers!
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