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Post by squeallydan on Mar 13, 2006 10:46:12 GMT -7
I sold my Maz Jr. and have a Maz Sr. that should come home this week. Will it really sound like my Jr. but just louder? What are the tonal differences? Anybody had a chance to really compare the two side by side?
THANKS!
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Post by Bill on Mar 13, 2006 11:27:05 GMT -7
I went straight from a Jr to a Sr. Simply put, to me the Sr has a more "refined" smooth sound, where the Jr is more grainy & dirty. Obviously more headroom from the Sr, more wallop. You'll like the Sr, a real do-it-all workhorse.
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Post by Greg G. on Mar 13, 2006 12:14:47 GMT -7
Like Madison said, Senior: refined, open and smooth; Junior: grainy, dirty and agressive. I have both amps (well, actually just sold my Senior 2x12, soon to be replaced by a head and cab, I think) and IMO while the two amps are similar in function and sound, they are really very different amps. The Junior isn't just a less powerfull version of the Senior, and the Senior isn't a louder version of the Junior. Different flavors of the same sound type, if that makes any sense. Really worth having both amps IMO if you like the "Maz" sound style. -Greg
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Mar 13, 2006 12:15:57 GMT -7
I have posted about this a couple of times before. I recently spent the day testing MAZ Jr's, Jr NR's, and a Sr NR at the nearest dealer. To make a long story short, I believe that the Jr and the Sr. are very different beasts. There is a "family resemblance", but that's about where it ends. I plugged into the Sr NR first, and was blown away. It's not easy to impress me that much, either; I've got a, *ahem*, few Z's including one of the first Stingrays. I quickly decided that the Sr was a little too loud; but the power, sophistication, complexity, and low end were incredible. I then spent a lot of time comparing the reverb Jr vs. the NR. I loved the Jr. NR for it's attack, grit, flexibility and general attitude. I loved the Jr so much that I bought it. However, that beautiful Sr NR sound was stuck in my head so bad that I ordered a SR NR too. It's all Jayson Chance's fault! The overdrive that the Jr gets is more "in your face", as Jayson said, "snotty", and aggressive. The Sr is way louder, more complex, and the overdrive is more, as Z said, "satiny". The cool thing about the Sr is that (like the Jr) you can actually use the Master control to play at lower volumes and turn up the Cut control to add back the sparkle. But, with the "Volume" up on the Sr and the Master set over 11:00, it a thing of beauty (but LOUD). I'm just going to have to put up with the volume or get an Air Brake; it's just that good.
PDW
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Post by squeallydan on Mar 13, 2006 12:27:46 GMT -7
Cool! Thanks for all the info. I can't wait. I am going to enjoy having a little more headroom.
What cabinet do you think I will like best with the Maz Sr. I have been using a Mesa 2x12 and a Mesa 1x12. I am thinking of getting a Z 2x10 cab or a Z 1x12 oben back. None of my current ones are openback. Any suggestions.
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Post by Bill on Mar 13, 2006 12:37:31 GMT -7
What cabinet do you think I will like best with the Maz Sr. I have been using a Mesa 2x12 and a Mesa 1x12. I am thinking of getting a Z 2x10 cab or a Z 1x12 oben back. None of my current ones are openback. Any suggestions. If you want to tame the volume some, definitely go with a less efficient speaker. One advantage of a 1x12 is, it's not to cumbersome to switch out speakers, if you're into that. The 50w Alnico or Ceramic Blue dog would be cool with the Sr.
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Post by squeallydan on Mar 13, 2006 13:53:03 GMT -7
If I buy a Z 1x12, how can I run it with my Mesa 1x12. I think that might be a cool sounding combination. The openback z with the closed Mesa might be cool together. Is that what people use a Y-cord for? WHich output would you run it out of. I think both speakers would be rated at 8ohms. Would you run the y-cord out of the 4 ohm slot? Where do you get a y-cord?
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Post by billyguitar on Mar 13, 2006 14:13:21 GMT -7
there's another post here somewhere dealing with this specifically. Use a Y cord and plug into the 4 ohm hole, so long as both speakers are 8 ohm. Pro cables and sound are building Y cords, according to Bluzsteel.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Mar 13, 2006 14:41:30 GMT -7
I played the 38NR through a stock Z-Best. It was loud, but really matched up well with the amp. Great lows, just enough chime.
PDW
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Post by Seńor Verde on Mar 13, 2006 16:33:06 GMT -7
Do you think the major tone/overdrive differences between the Jr. and Sr. are the PI tubes used in each? The Jr. comes stock with a 12ax7 Sovtek LPS while the Sr. comes with a NOS 12at7. More gain to the power amp with the Jr. and different characteristics due to the types of tubes used.
I put a NOS 12at7 in my Jr. and it sounds more like the Sr. Kind of like the difference between a Pro Reverb and a Twin or 50 watt Plexi and 100 watter. Very similar, but different in more subtle ways.
If you like the Sr. and also own a Jr. try the tube swap.
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Mar 13, 2006 16:44:48 GMT -7
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Post by LittleBlindShakey on Mar 13, 2006 18:00:28 GMT -7
squeallydan, My decision to purchase a Sr. vs Jr were not as thoughtful as the other comments. I played with guys who used both Jr and Sr's and both sound teriffic. My deciding factor was that I could stay cleaner longer with the Sr. I figured I could always put any one of many good dirt pedals in front of the amp, or fuss with the Volume to Master ratio, or get an airbrake to get more gain, etc... But I can't take a Jr. and make it clean up with a pedal... If that makes sense. Volume is not the issue. I just want the ability to go cleaner at comparable volumes.
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Mar 13, 2006 18:07:25 GMT -7
DoobieK,
The Jr and the Sr use the same phase inverter design- a 12AX7. A 12AT7 is used in both the reverb equipped Jr and Sr's in the reverb circuit. I haven't opened up the Jr and Sr and compared them (yet) but I'm pretty confident in saying that there's more circuit differences than just two additional power tubes. The entire gain structure seems different.
PDW
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Post by squeallydan on Mar 13, 2006 19:29:51 GMT -7
squeallydan, My decision to purchase a Sr. vs Jr were not as thoughtful as the other comments. I played with guys who used both Jr and Sr's and both sound teriffic. My deciding factor was that I could stay cleaner longer with the Sr. I figured I could always put any one of many good dirt pedals in front of the amp, or fuss with the Volume to Master ratio, or get an airbrake to get more gain, etc... But I can't take a Jr. and make it clean up with a pedal... If that makes sense. Volume is not the issue. I just want the ability to go cleaner at comparable volumes. Cool! Thats why I am getting the Sr.
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Post by Seńor Verde on Mar 13, 2006 20:31:21 GMT -7
PDW, I am reporting what came in my Jr. and Sr. Also, if you check the tube info. on the Dr. Z website, it calls for an AT7 PI for the Sr. and AX7 for the Jr.
There may be other differences, as I have not compared mine side-by-side, but using those two different tubes alone will make a considerable difference. Crack 'em open and let us know.
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Post by JASON (aka jgleaton) on Mar 13, 2006 23:09:00 GMT -7
squeallydan, My decision to purchase a Sr. vs Jr were not as thoughtful as the other comments. I played with guys who used both Jr and Sr's and both sound teriffic. My deciding factor was that I could stay cleaner longer with the Sr. I figured I could always put any one of many good dirt pedals in front of the amp, or fuss with the Volume to Master ratio, or get an airbrake to get more gain, etc... But I can't take a Jr. and make it clean up with a pedal... If that makes sense. Volume is not the issue. I just want the ability to go cleaner at comparable volumes. Cool! Thats why I am getting the Sr. BTW, Your gonna LOVE your SR!!! ;D
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Mar 14, 2006 6:24:24 GMT -7
I asked Dr. Z about the MAZ 38 inverter tubes as listed on the web site. Here's what he said:
"Yes something I should change on the site. I was shipping SR Reverbs with 12AT7 PI at first, then changed to 12AX7 LPS. The 38 NR always had 3 12AX7’s"
Now we know.
PDW
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Post by JChance on Mar 14, 2006 16:08:48 GMT -7
DoobieK, The Jr and the Sr use the same phase inverter design- a 12AX7. A 12AT7 is used in both the reverb equipped Jr and Sr's in the reverb circuit. I haven't opened up the Jr and Sr and compared them (yet) but I'm pretty confident in saying that there's more circuit differences than just two additional power tubes. The entire gain structure seems different. PDW I've got both... And I'm pretty sure that there aren't really any circuit differences... But the 38 has two more power tubes (obviously) and MUCH bigger iron. The output trannie is easily twice the size of the one on the Jr, if not more. It looks huge in comparison. As far as how they sound? Different, but the same. I definitely wouldn't call them apples & oranges. More like green apples & red apples. Sometimes I think I love my Jr the best....But sometimes it's the Sr. I go back and forth on which one I'd keep on a desert island. All things considered, in a recording environment, the Jr certainly has a "sweetness" about it, as well being what I refer to as a "snotty little brat." It's agressive, but there's something delicate & detailed about it's response. Really a beautiful design. I'm probably about 50/50 on the recording sessions I do between the 18 and the 38. On tape, most folks probably couldn't tell a difference. The 38 is just *wider.* Bigger bottom, but that's probably a bit too simplified. It's like it has more bandwidth, for lack of a better term. For pure versatility, I've never plugged into a better amp than my 38. A good Matchless DC30 was, for a long time, my favorite amp of all time for my tastes.... But when I can get my 38 on a stage where it can opened up, I can tell honestly that I've never played through a better sounding amp. With great speakers (to your taste), it sure is hard to beat. Having said that, I still think the 18 is enough for most applications. I've done tons of gigs where I needed *volume* and the Jr did just fine. If you mainly play clubs, even medium & larger sized, if mic'ed the 18 will fit most needs. And in a smaller club, you can go un'miced just fine. JC
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Post by Phil (aka Phil) on Mar 14, 2006 18:08:27 GMT -7
I'll defer to Jayson on this one. He's got a *lot* more hours on the MAZ's than I do. Maybe it is just the larger trannies and two extra output tubes. If that is the only difference between the two MAZ's, it's amazing what those differences make. Makes you wonder what a half power 'Ray with smaller iron would sound like....
PDW
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Post by Seńor Verde on Mar 14, 2006 19:28:23 GMT -7
Well that is interesting. I wonder why the change. I like the NOS AT7 for phase inverter in both, so will stick with that. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, right?
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Post by JChance on Mar 15, 2006 8:00:29 GMT -7
Mine came stock with 12AX7 in the PI. I've tried a 12AT7, but to me it seemed to take away a little of the amp's character. Although, if you were trying to voice it more like a Fender...a 12AT7 in the PI and some "USA-style" speakers like Weber 12F150's/Jensen C12N's would get you there. Would certainly make the amp a little cleaner-sounding.
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Post by Seńor Verde on Mar 18, 2006 14:27:11 GMT -7
I tried the Weber 12F150 and much prefer the stock Anniv. G12H with a 12AT7 PI for Fenderish sounds. I have said it before, but when I first got my Maz Sr. with this setup, my bandmates said that amp sounded way better than any I had played with them before. I agree, and those amps included an Allen Old Flame and a blackfaced '71 Twin with Weber Chicagos.
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